45-70 Government Advice

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  • Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Mar 9, 2022
    2,305
    113
    Bloomington
    So I'm currently in the research phase for wanting to get started reloading 45-70 government, and I'm a bit overwhelmed with the amount of info out there, so I thought I'd post my questions and see if anyone has any advice they can give me from their own experience.

    The rifle I'm reloading for is an 1874 Sharps Rifle replica made by Cimarron, so of course any loads will need to be low-pressure loads safe for trapdoor rifles.

    My first question is, what type of bullets are best for hunting with? I'm assuming that for hunting white-tailed deer here in Indiana I'd just want to stick with round nose bullets, as the heavy 45 caliber bullet will likely do a number on the deer anyways, and adding any expansion into the mix would only ruin more meat. Is my thinking correct on this? Actually, is it even legal to hunt with round nose bullets here in Indiana? I think I remember from hunter's ed that FMJ bullets are illegal for deer hunting, but are round nose lead bullets legal? If not, should I actually be looking for a hollow point that offers less expansion? And if I wanted to work up a hunting load that would work well for larger game like moose or bear, should I ever get the chance to go hunt those, would it be better to use some kind of hollow point, or are round nose bullets going to be the best choice?

    Also, in searching for earlier threads on here, I found some people talking about working out a lighter load for plinking, and then have a stouter load for hunting with. My concern is that I don't want to have to remember to adjust my sights differently while hunting than I do while practicing. If I practice at 200-300yds with a 405gr bullet with a light powder charge, then go hunting with a 300 gr hollow point with a light charge, yes, I can sight the rifle in differently for the hunting load, but if I accidentally fall back into the habit of using the graduated sight like I did with the practice rounds, I'll end up shooting over the top of whatever I'm trying to hit. For this reason, I'm kind of wanting to pick one weight of bullet, and stick with it. Is there any merit to this way of thinking, or am I off the rails here? If it is a doable idea, any suggestions on what the best bullet weight would be for sort of a catch-all bullet?

    Sorry, I know it's a ton of open-ended questions, but any help/advice would be greatly appreciated. If there's any other general advice or big things I should know before getting started, I'd also appreciate those pointers. Thanks!
     

    Creedmoor

    Grandmaster
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    9   0   0
    Mar 10, 2022
    7,148
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    Madison Co Indiana
    My understanding has always been with most import reproductions the middle loads are fine. You have three levels of 45-70 loads.
    I believe your Cimarron was built by Pedersoli.
    Trap doors, some leverers and single shots and, the high pressure rifles and handguns.

    Buffalo Bore loads some pretty hot ammo. Under thier listing for 45-70, it says
    Quote:

    All .45-70 Magnum loadings are intended for use in the following firearms:
    All Marlin Model 1895 variations made since 1972
    Browning Model 1885 and 1886
    New England Arms Handi-Rifle
    Ruger #1 and #3
    T/C Encore
    Shiloh, Christian and Pedersoli Sharps
    shocked.gif

    New Production Winchester 1886
    If loading 400 -530 grain bullets most likely depending on what model Sharps you have your shoulder will give out long before the gun will.
    I shoot Browning 1885's and 1886's.
     
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Mar 9, 2022
    2,305
    113
    Bloomington
    My understanding has always been with most import reproductions the middle loads are fine. You have three levels of 45-70 loads.
    I believe your Cimarron was built by Pedersoli.
    Trap doors, some leverers and single shots and, the high pressure rifles and handguns.

    Buffalo Bore loads some pretty hot ammo. Under thier listing for 45-70, it says

    If loading 400 -530 grain bullets most likely depending on what model Sharps you have your shoulder will give out long before the gun will.
    I shoot Browning 1885's and 1886's.
    The manual says to only use cartridges with black powder pressures, not exceeding 25K PSI
     

    Bigtanker

    Cuddles
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    24   0   0
    Aug 21, 2012
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    Osceola
    I'm not much on the specifics of the load and such but I question the round nose projectile. I think you'd be better suited with a hard cast Keith type semi wadcutter or flat nose.
     

    Leadeye

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    Jan 19, 2009
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    Get a lower weight, 300 grain or so bullet and some 5744 powder. The lower weight bullet won't beat up your shoulder like Creedmore said and is more than enough for penetration of deer in any direction. Jacketed soft points or cast lead with a gas check are ideal. 5744 powder bulks up well in those big cases and I use it in my Pedersoli Sharps pictured although I don't hunt with it as it's too long and heavy for tree stand work.

    sharps scope.jpg
     

    Leadeye

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    Jan 19, 2009
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    For more power in 45-70 I use 3031 and Remington 405 grain soft points in my Marlin. Way over powered for deer, the 1895 like the 444 Marlin will loosen the fillings in your teeth.;)
     

    snapping turtle

    Grandmaster
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    6   0   0
    Dec 5, 2009
    6,536
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    Madison county
    Do you have any brass?
    If just getting started into 45-70 and looking into hunting. Even the trapdoor rounds will be 2.50 a shot.my marlin is not restricted in anyway but it seem to enjoy 405 gas checked lead flat points pretty well

    Ps trapdoor loads will be fine for deer hunting. Deer not real hard to kill.
     

    Creedmoor

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    Mar 10, 2022
    7,148
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    Madison Co Indiana
    The reality is any 45-70 load will take a deer, they're not that tough.

    The trapdoor and cowboy loads have been doing it for years with deer and hogs.
    Lots of dead buffalo with wimpy government loads.
    I tend to play with High Walls, for one because i'll left handed and Sharps & Rolling blocks just dont work well for me.
    Heres one of mine,
    Browning BPCR in 45-70 with Montana Vintage Arms front and rear sights.
    20220730_111918(1).jpg
    530 grain Postells dropped out of a Steve Brooks mold, and a compressed load of Goex Cartridge.
    Thats a 38 spec 148 grain wc next to it.

    20220730_112517.jpg
     
    Last edited:
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Mar 9, 2022
    2,305
    113
    Bloomington
    I'm not much on the specifics of the load and such but I question the round nose projectile. I think you'd be better suited with a hard cast Keith type semi wadcutter or flat nose.
    Yes, that makes sense; I think I'm actually getting confused on terminology here; a lot of the bullets I look up for 45-70 are labeled as "Round Nose Flat Point." But "round nose" and "flat point" seem to be two mutually exclusive things. I'm a bit confused now, lol.
     
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Mar 9, 2022
    2,305
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    Bloomington
    The round nose will work.

    Round nose flat point will work better.

    What weight are you using? 405 grain.
    Oh, I think this answers my question above. So "Round nose" means "Round nose" and "Round nose flat point" means "Flat point no round nose." Makes sense, lol...

    Anyways, I don't really know what weight I'm going to use yet, that was one of the main questions I had was what's best to start with?
     
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Mar 9, 2022
    2,305
    113
    Bloomington
    Get a lower weight, 300 grain or so bullet and some 5744 powder. The lower weight bullet won't beat up your shoulder like Creedmore said and is more than enough for penetration of deer in any direction. Jacketed soft points or cast lead with a gas check are ideal. 5744 powder bulks up well in those big cases and I use it in my Pedersoli Sharps pictured although I don't hunt with it as it's too long and heavy for tree stand work.

    View attachment 214696

    For more power in 45-70 I use 3031 and Remington 405 grain soft points in my Marlin. Way over powered for deer, the 1895 like the 444 Marlin will loosen the fillings in your teeth.;)
    Thanks for the pointers!

    So is it correct to say that cast lead and soft points are both legal for deer, while full metal jacket are not, or am I misunderstanding that?
     
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    4   0   0
    Mar 9, 2022
    2,305
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    Bloomington
    Thats a whole lot more than what you will get with BP.
    SAAMI has set 45-70 pressure levels @ 28,000 PSI.
    What model did you purchase?
    It's a Cimarron, 1874 Sharps Deluxe, 45-70GOV'T, 32" Octagonal Barrel, Blued

    I was also confused by the 25,000 PSI number the manual stated, seeing as my reloading manual as well as any source I found online had that same 28,000 PSI standard for trapdoor loads.
     
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