6/14 INGO Class with Shay VanVlymen AARs

[shooter521]

Who's up for more?:do2:

Sorry I missed out on the course and on dinner. I've met Shay, but haven't had the pleasure of training with him. A pistol refresher course is on my short list, so I'd definitely be game for any future INGO training opportunities that come up.

 

[Shay]

Thank you all for posting your thoughtful reviews.

I really enjoyed teaching this class. It is exciting to take so many students and expose them to their first formal training.

I designed this class to teach a core set of skills, tactics and Mindset but it really was just an appetizer. There was so little time to cover so much ground that I had to cut out some important bits. I know I said this in class, but it's important to repeat. Go take more training. There are tons of schools being hosted in Indiana in the coming months. There are also dozens of schools within a day's drive. Make it a priority to continue your education before you spend more money on more guns and gadgets.

I'm a little sad because this will be my last time teaching for a while, so I really want to say thanks to all who attended the class. I also really enjoyed seeing the crew that showed up for dinner. It was a seriously large gang.

 

[pmpmstrb]

No, not that I saw.

He did make us kick dirt on our pistols, though. So much for the shiny newness. /sniffle

I hope he waited till the end of class so the Sig people could still participate.

 

[Pami]

I hope he waited till the end of class so the Sig people could still participate.

I am the Sig people. And my P250 worked just fine, tyvm.

PS.. based on the Big Holes it put in my cardboard target, I'd really recommend not being shot point-blank by a P250. The muzzle blast is scary compared to some of the other shot-from-retention holes I saw.

 

[Lars]

P30 Battle Scar from kicking it around in the rocks and dirt.
I'm pretty sure I even stepped on it, and ground it in good.



One down, several thousand to go.

 

[sjstill]

Pami, I got to shoot a P250 Sunday. That is one SIG I'd seriously consider.

In the Fighting Pistol class last year, I had no qualms dropping my Springfield TRP on the deck. That Armory Cote is tough stuff.

Had fewer qualms about winging my Kel-Tec P32 like a throwing star at the target (had serious ammo issues, wasn't the gun's fault).

 

[Lars]

.......
Had fewer qualms about winging my Kel-Tec P32 like a throwing star at the target (had serious ammo issues, wasn't the gun's fault).

I suspect it was the Guns Fault!
Kel-Tec's are suspect until proven innocent in a court of about 1500 flawless rounds.

 

[sjstill]

No, in this case, the Keltie was innocent. I tried the same lot of ammo in another Keltie (with a broken firing pin, I found out later; but it still worked with good ammo) and a Walther PP - many misfires. Winchester Silvertips, I think the box got soaked, and messed things up. Had probably 35 misfires out of that one box of 50, maybe more (I've slept since then).

I suspect it was the Guns Fault!
Kel-Tec's are suspect until proven innocent in a court of about 1500 flawless rounds.

 

[pinhead56]

I'm just a little slower than the rest at getting my thoughts on the class posted up here, but here goes...

I think one of the best things I learned to do was clearing those damn little yellow dummies that appeared at random (at least to me) in my shot sets. When you are supposed to be firing at the target and all you get is "click", it will take me some repetitions at the practice range to remember to just smack the mag bottom solidly into the well and rack the slide "vigorously" as Shay said and get back into the fight, rather than standing there going..."WTF?!" and looking stoopidly at the gun . If you are into the competition stuff like USPSA etc, it will also be a good thing to know if you happen to hit a hard primer and no bang... "smack and rack" and continue. Just shake it off. The only time you would need to pause would be if you hit a squib... then you better just throw the pistol at the target.

 

[Fenway]

Thank you Lars, Pami and other participants for the excellent reviews.

I was impressed that from the get go we were using dummy rounds and moving off the line of attack. The dummy rounds forced us to tap-rack-bang and if we didn't move we would hear about it even over the gun fire. Shooting from retention always gives a nice muzzle blast facial. Not very pretty shooting but very eye opening and obviously an important position to have tried at least once.

The discussion regarding mindset and legal issues was probably worth the price of admission alone. Could the info provided really save one of our asses down the road? YES! In addition to Shay's insights we were also very fortunate to have Kirk there to get his

Kirk sees this stuff on a daily basis and the F bombs were really flying during this part of the lecture. Point taken.

Thank you Shay for a great class and thank you Steve for providing us with the range. This event was a huge success and I look forward to setting up more in the near future! Our first INGO training day will be a tough act to follow but as Shay suggested... Let's continue to seek out as much good training as possible and keep making payments.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

If my profanity upset anyone, I apologize. I hang around a rougher crowd.

See, my mom always tells me I need to get married so I will become civilized.

 

[Scutter01]

See, my mom always tells me I need to get married so I will become civilized.

In my experience, it increases the level of cursing.

 

[abnk]

P30 Battle Scar from kicking it around in the rocks and dirt.
I'm pretty sure I even stepped on it, and ground it in good.



One down, several thousand to go.

Lars,

Was this a part of a drill? If so, what is accomplished by doing so?

Thanks.

 

[obijohn]

I'm a little sad because this will be my last time teaching for a while, so I really want to say thanks to all who attended the class. I also really enjoyed seeing the crew that showed up for dinner. It was a seriously large gang.

from the reviews, we'll be losing a valuable resource.

 

[Shay]

Lars,

Was this a part of a drill? If so, what is accomplished by doing so?

Thanks.

Yes, it was.

I had students shoot with their non-dominant hands only. We start the drills with the pistol on the ground simulating that it was dropped when your dominant hand was injured or otherwise occupied. If you drop your gun on the ground there is a fair chance it will get at least a little dirty in the process.

Your gun needs to work when it is dirty. Getting your gun dirty is the best way to test if it will still work when it's dirty. Most students haven't ever tested their pistols so this is an opportunity to do just that.

Kicking dirt on your pistol is a Mindset issue as well. If you aren't willing to get your gun dirty and possibly scratched in training, your training is probably not outside your comfort zone. Letting go of the worship of your carry pistol is the first step to seeing it as just another tool.

 

[TomN]

Yes the gun Shay was using to demo shooting from retention was a Blackhawk Gray Gun. A Blackhawk Gray Gun is not a real gun. Let me repeat....

IT IS NOT A REAL GUN!!



Thank you.

 

[abnk]

...

Kicking dirt on your pistol is a Mindset issue as well. If you aren't willing to get your gun dirty and possibly scratched in training, your training is probably not outside your comfort zone. Letting go of the worship of your carry pistol is the first step to seeing it as just another tool.

That's very thought-inciting. Thanks for explaining.

 

[Lars]

Yes, it was.

I had students shoot with their non-dominant hands only. We start the drills with the pistol on the ground simulating that it was dropped when your dominant hand was injured or otherwise occupied. If you drop your gun on the ground there is a fair chance it will get at least a little dirty in the process.

Your gun needs to work when it is dirty. Getting your gun dirty is the best way to test if it will still work when it's dirty. Most students haven't ever tested their pistols so this is an opportunity to do just that.

Kicking dirt on your pistol is a Mindset issue as well. If you aren't willing to get your gun dirty and possibly scratched in training, your training is probably not outside your comfort zone. Letting go of the worship of your carry pistol is the first step to seeing it as just another tool.

Not only that. It's damned fun to shoot a gun that peppers you with sand and crushed limestone when fired!!! Seriously!

It's also lots of fun to hear the sounds of shock from the HKPro guys who worship their German pistols. I mean seriously, it's a tool, designed to kill put holes in things at over a thousand feet per second. This is not a fabriche egg.

 

[BrownDog]

Yes, it was.

I had students shoot with their non-dominant hands only. We start the drills with the pistol on the ground simulating that it was dropped when your dominant hand was injured or otherwise occupied. If you drop your gun on the ground there is a fair chance it will get at least a little dirty in the process.

Your gun needs to work when it is dirty. Getting your gun dirty is the best way to test if it will still work when it's dirty. Most students haven't ever tested their pistols so this is an opportunity to do just that.

Kicking dirt on your pistol is a Mindset issue as well. If you aren't willing to get your gun dirty and possibly scratched in training, your training is probably not outside your comfort zone. Letting go of the worship of your carry pistol is the first step to seeing it as just another tool.

I liked the class because it allowed me to try some actions that I normally would not think of doing. Also the non-dominant hand exercise has me reconsidering using my SIG 229 as a carry. The DA pull with my left hand (non-dominant) was not easy. I may need to either practice more with my left hand or find a different carry pistol.

 

[nofear]

Non dominant hand with the Sig in DA isn't that bad. I was using my Sig at that point and it was ok to shoot. Both my Sig and FNP were great to shoot that day.

Try a factory glock trigger and you will hate it. Requires you to do a NY trigger job just to make it "Not squishy"