A bad thing happened in INDY!

[Trigger Time]

Perhaps you should just head it off at the pass, and reply with a link to the article and say that's where you got the information from. Wouldn't be any reason to even contact you then.

He just said it on here. They read this site all the time so now they know where he got it. I wouldn't waste my time.
didnt you see the link to the thread where he ha the suppressors stolen out of his truck however long ago? The last page is a quote from Andrew saying he turned over copies of customers drivers licenses and addresses and phone numbers to the atf and Impd of people HE thought might have taken them. What a standup move!! That tells me all I need to know right there and should anyone else.
Bullying at best! The cops aren't idiots. They know where that list came from and was probably posted in the same order as what THEY gave it to the media. Wow that was hard to figure out now my head hurts. Scare tactic for revealing it

 

[Bollorollo]

 

[rhino]

Thinking out loud here . . .

I'm still curious about the logistics. Someone had the ingenuity and means to abscond with a trailer laden with significantly heavy cargo without leaving any marks behind. Given that, would it be unreasonable to speculate that the same or similar individuals would also have the means and ingenuity to enter a building and either open or remove a safe with the same items? To wit, I offer the burglary of Elmore's quite a few years ago (in the old location).

In general, is there any way to secure property from sufficiently motivated and skilled thieves?

This makes me wonder why more gun shops, especially those with Class 3 licenses, are not burglarized more frequently. Perhaps it's less expensive and less risk-laden to purchase illicitly imported weapons?

It seems like the key in preventing or minimizing the risk of theft rests more in the motivation (or lack therof) than it does in the actual means of securing the goods.

 

[jblomenberg16]

He just said it on here. They read this site all the time so now they know where he got it. I wouldn't waste my time.
didnt you see the link to the thread where he ha the suppressors stolen out of his truck however long ago? The last page is a quote from Andrew saying he turned over copies of customers drivers licenses and addresses and phone numbers to the atf and Impd of people HE thought might have taken them. What a standup move!! That tells me all I need to know right there and should anyone else.
Bullying at best! The cops aren't idiots. They know where that list came from and was probably posted in the same order as what THEY gave it to the media. Wow that was hard to figure out now my head hurts. Scare tactic for revealing it

Maybe, maybe not. I'm sure this and about 1 gazillion other internet threads are being searched as it pertains to the investigation. Would seem to be SOP...try to find out what was known and when. 999.9999 zillion (so 1 less than 1 gazillion) of those threads are probably completely harmless and are just guys like us having an internet fist fight about the situation. But who knows...maybe there is 1 thread out there, perhaps on facebook or another forum that could show some prior knowledge, intent, etc.

I've said this before, I got a call from the DNR regarding a post I made during last deer season about legally harvesting a deer with a 300BLK pistol. Everything was perfectly legal and on the up and up, but it was investigated anyway. I think we're all naïve if we think that our forum, and those like it, aren't regularly browsed for intelligence gathering.

 

[IndyGunworks]

I know several ATF agents who are regulars here w/ high post counts and participate in all sorts of threads.

 

[jblomenberg16]

Thinking out loud here . . .

I'm still curious about the logistics. Someone had the ingenuity and means to abscond with a trailer laden with significantly heavy cargo without leaving any marks behind. Given that, would it be unreasonable to speculate that the same or similar individuals would also have the means and ingenuity to enter a building and either open or remove a safe with the same items? To wit, I offer the burglary of Elmore's quite a few years ago (in the old location).

In general, is there any way to secure property from sufficiently motivated and skilled thieves?

This makes me wonder why more gun shops, especially those with Class 3 licenses, are not burglarized more frequently. Perhaps it's less expensive and less risk-laden to purchase illicitly imported weapons?

It seems like the key in preventing or minimizing the risk of theft rests more in the motivation (or lack therof) than it does in the actual means of securing the goods.

Fair point. My theory (worth about as little as the virtual paper I type this on) is that the thieves probably didn't target it thinking they'd get class III stuff. My bet is one of two scenarios took place:

1) It was just a typical theft of a trailer, perhaps made a little more lucrative by the gun shop logo on the side. Trailers get stolen all the time....sometimes with race cars in them, sometimes with tools in them, sometimes empty. They are usually pretty quick and efficient at it and its gone before most folks even realize it, often with little evidence. Crooks probably saw a chance to potentially hit the jackpot and then really got surprised when they found what was in it.

2) It was an intentional theft of firearms and ammo given that they either saw it being loaded, or had prior knowledge. It seems like a long shot that they would have had the means or surveillance to determine it was class III stuff (how many of us could determine the difference in an M-16 and semi Auto AR-15 from anything farther away than a few feet). Sure, seeing an M249 being loaded might be a give away, but sounds like the other stuff would be more likely to just be targeted because it was a "modern sporting rifle" vs. a known Class III item.


Just my two cents.

 

[357 Terms]

There are a lot of people who are going to be contacted/questioned about this.

All employees, customers who may have been in the shop around the time the trailor was loaded, neighboring businesses....

No stone will be left unturned.

Computers, phones, phones of wives and kids.....
This is just starting for many people, gonna be long and thorough.

Nobody wants a pervebial "proctology exam" from the alphabet groups, but Profire is gonna get one.
Gonna suck.

 

[Fargo]

Thinking out loud here . . .

I'm still curious about the logistics. Someone had the ingenuity and means to abscond with a trailer laden with significantly heavy cargo without leaving any marks behind. Given that, would it be unreasonable to speculate that the same or similar individuals would also have the means and ingenuity to enter a building and either open or remove a safe with the same items? To wit, I offer the burglary of Elmore's quite a few years ago (in the old location).

In general, is there any way to secure property from sufficiently motivated and skilled thieves?

This makes me wonder why more gun shops, especially those with Class 3 licenses, are not burglarized more frequently. Perhaps it's less expensive and less risk-laden to purchase illicitly imported weapons?

It seems like the key in preventing or minimizing the risk of theft rests more in the motivation (or lack therof) than it does in the actual means of securing the goods.

If memory serves, the last time Elmore's was burglarized, it was by driving a vehicle through the front of the store and the perps got away with exactly 1 rifle and 0 handguns because of how the rest were secured. I would say that is a lesson that security does make a difference.

Realistically though, the street market for a hot NFA weapon is minimal. They all come with an attached case of federal alphabetitis which is usually fatal to the users liberty. I am doubtful that the thieves in this case were aware they were stealing NFA guns. The market for stolen regular firearms is vastly larger, brings far less scrutiny, and ends at the state level of prosecution most of the time.

Plus, if you want full auto, converting an AR or AK is far easier and less risky.

Unless the guns are going to Mexico, or you are a terrorist, or you want to plan a mass casualty suicide event; there is simply little to be gained in stealing NFA weapons.

 

[churchmouse]

Thinking out loud here . . .

I'm still curious about the logistics. Someone had the ingenuity and means to abscond with a trailer laden with significantly heavy cargo without leaving any marks behind. Given that, would it be unreasonable to speculate that the same or similar individuals would also have the means and ingenuity to enter a building and either open or remove a safe with the same items? To wit, I offer the burglary of Elmore's quite a few years ago (in the old location).

In general, is there any way to secure property from sufficiently motivated and skilled thieves?

This makes me wonder why more gun shops, especially those with Class 3 licenses, are not burglarized more frequently. Perhaps it's less expensive and less risk-laden to purchase illicitly imported weapons?

It seems like the key in preventing or minimizing the risk of theft rests more in the motivation (or lack therof) than it does in the actual means of securing the goods.

As stated way back in the thread....any decent roll back operator could snatch up that trailer in 60 to 90 seconds and not leave a mark.

 

[MisterChester]

Thinking out loud here . . .

I'm still curious about the logistics. Someone had the ingenuity and means to abscond with a trailer laden with significantly heavy cargo without leaving any marks behind. Given that, would it be unreasonable to speculate that the same or similar individuals would also have the means and ingenuity to enter a building and either open or remove a safe with the same items? To wit, I offer the burglary of Elmore's quite a few years ago (in the old location).

In general, is there any way to secure property from sufficiently motivated and skilled thieves?

This makes me wonder why more gun shops, especially those with Class 3 licenses, are not burglarized more frequently. Perhaps it's less expensive and less risk-laden to purchase illicitly imported weapons?

It seems like the key in preventing or minimizing the risk of theft rests more in the motivation (or lack therof) than it does in the actual means of securing the goods.

I think they were scoped out by the thieves. They watched them load it and lock it and took note of their patterns. Another possibility was it was an inside job. I don't know anybody there, but the fact there were very few traces makes it look more suspicious.

 

[PistolBob]

Well...the cops have one of the thieves, and some of the guns now. We don't hear much about it in the media yet...possibly because the law has asked them to keep mum about it for now.

Did the media ever report WHERE the guns and the suspect were apprehended, I mean besides the "at an undisclosed Indy location....." the story gets more interesting every passing day.

I'm betting DHS is all over this as well.

 

[moosehead]

I think they were scoped out by the thieves. They watched them load it and lock it and took note of their patterns. Another possibility was it was an inside job. I don't know anybody there, but the fact there were very few traces makes it look more suspicious.

I can't imagine any of the guys I've dealt with over there would be involved in anything like this.

 

[hooky]

I may be mistaken, but isn't Andrew in Europe on his honeymoon right now?

 

[Westside]

I know several ATF agents who are regulars here w/ high post counts and participate in all sorts of threads.

 

[Fargo]

Well...the cops have one of the thieves, and some of the guns now. We don't hear much about it in the media yet...possibly because the law has asked them to keep mum about it for now.

Did the media ever report WHERE the guns and the suspect were apprehended, I mean besides the "at an undisclosed Indy location....." the story gets more interesting every passing day.

I'm betting DHS is all over this as well.

Yeah, I saw yesterday that they had found some of them and arrested a guy on "unrelated charges". This makes me think even more that it was a local crew who did not know what they were getting into. True professionals would have been long gone and definitely would not be storing the guns with people with other looming trouble.

This is part of what upsets me about this whole thing, it isn't exactly a closely held secret that plucking trailers is a staple of a LOT of thieves who have the system down to a science. The normal end result is that chop shops and pawn shops get a boost of economic stimulus on stolen cars and tools.

As CM said, any competent flatbed tow truck driver has the skills to do what was done...

 

[Westside]

I may be mistaken, but isn't Andrew in Europe on his honeymoon right now?

Germany to be specific. and He was very disappointed the HK factory does not give tours.

 

[PistolBob]

According to WTHR: IMPD locates some weapons stolen from gun store trailer - 13 WTHR Indianapolis

35th and Schofield Ave is south of the Fairgrounds, and 4400 Ralston Ave is on the north side of the fairgrounds. I can't tell from the story if they found some of the guns at 35th and Schofield or not...the story was updated last night. (HAHAHA Schofield Ave is smack dab in the middle of ....46218)

According to WRTV: IMPD Portion of stolen high-powered guns found in Indy home - TheIndyChannel.com

"Police said they found about a third of the weapons at an undisclosed residence. The person at that residence is a convicted felon and was taken into custody, but has not been charged."

Interesting....not been charged...

According to FOX 59: http://fox59.com/2014/09/23/portion...-side-gun-store-located-in-indianapolis-home/

This story says the guy was arrested on unrelated charges but gives no info as to where the stolen firearms were found.

 

[hooky]

Germany to be specific. and He was very disappointed the HK factory does not give tours.

Good. I hope he and Mandy are enjoying themselves.

 

[Fargo]

According to WTHR: IMPD locates some weapons stolen from gun store trailer - 13 WTHR Indianapolis

35th and Schofield Ave is south of the Fairgrounds, and 4400 Ralston Ave is on the north side of the fairgrounds. I can't tell from the story if they found some of the guns at 35th and Schofeild or not...the story was updated last night.

According to WRTV: IMPD Portion of stolen high-powered guns found in Indy home - TheIndyChannel.com

"Police said they found about a third of the weapons at an undisclosed residence. The person at that residence is a convicted felon and was taken into custody, but has not been charged."

Interesting....not been charged...

Well you've got to prove knowledge and possession, and people get less likely to cooperate post-charging. If he can be held on something else, I'm not at all surprised that nothing has been filed.

Plus, the federal hammer is the big one and that is going to likely require and indictment.

 

[Ericpwp]

I wish there was more info. Were they serving a warrant, and stumbled on the stolen guns? Did they follow a lead? I'm sure the perp has NO idea how they got there. He could have just bought them, or let somebody store them. I hope he talks, and knows something.