Administrative Reload

[Trapper Jim]

As a long time opponent of the administrative reload, in the April issue of Gun Digest the magazine, Richard Mann, on page 16, wrote an informative article on recharging your weapon. Different from my opinion that there is almost NO time that I approve of the inserting the mag in the butt of your holstered gun, he does agree that there is no tactical advantage to doing so.

Professional Applications aside, I feel, and this may just be me, that fumbling around your beer belly trying to remove and insert mags, especially with fragile or sub standard holsters, is a lazy unprofessional, dangerous, waste of practice.




See you on the range

Trapper

 

[ECS686]

The term Administrative reload that I know of covers 2 areas. One like handling simply making it ready for the day. And 2 reload when you want to not when you have to. Not sure that covers while it’s holstered.

I have much more issue with the theory that became cool several years back of “ practice drawing and pointing after you upload before you holster or when you download for the day to get that practice rep in” Lots of holes in Squad rom til they said maybe we shouldn’t

 

[cedartop]

I don't consider an administrative reload to be only changing mags while in the holster. On that particular option I have been largely ambivalent although now that I know you and Richard Mann oppose it, I may look it it with new favor. In my mind and experience an Administrative reload is simply a reload that is not done "on the clock" as it were, simply topping your gun off.

 

[bwframe]

I've done it hundreds of times in classes, waiting to be next up to the shooting line. If the instructor made clear that it was OK, I figured why not take advantage of that oportunity?

You could say that I'm pretty practiced at it. Familiar with coming out of the rear mag carrier for admin reloads and what it takes to positively seat the full mag in my holstered pistol.

I'm sure I could do it without much thought or loss of focus, while waiting on law enforcement and medics to come pick up the bodies.


.

 

[76Too]

Ok...I’ve never even heard of this...assuming purpose is just to have a fresh/full mag in case (x) after discharge required?

 

[russc2542]

I'm with you about mag-changing a holstered gun not being best practice. Reloading while holstered is a gimmick to top off with a cold range preventing you from drawing. "oops, forgot to reload before holstering and calling the range cold but I still need to top off". I've done it and my holsters are cut for it. I've also failed to fully seat the mag doing it which is just one failure mode.

Ok...I’ve never even heard of this...assuming purpose is just to have a fresh/full mag in case (x) after discharge required?

An administrative reload is just topping off before you're empty and when you aren't racing the clock to put more rounds down range. Can be done with the gun drawn or, as the OP is lamenting, with the gun holstered (as long as the holster allows hitting the mag release).

 

[Twangbanger]

Anything which can't be done with a revolver is illegal, immoral, or fattening.

 

[Trapper Jim]

I don't consider an administrative reload to be only changing mags while in the holster. On that particular option I have been largely ambivalent although now that I know you and Richard Mann oppose it, I may look it it with new favor. In my mind and experience an Administrative reload is simply a reload that is not done "on the clock" as it were, simply topping your gun

It means different things to different people. For me, Most ANY exercise of gun handling opportunity should be rewarding to skill set. For instance, I know many shooters that in the hammer down or pull the trigger command they just snap the empty gun into the berm. Like mag changing a holstered gun, this earns the skill set nothing.

Unless the shooter has all the practice he will need for the rest of his life, perhaps he should practice sight picture, grip and trigger pull on the unload and show clear command.

Take loading magazines for example. Many of the high cap boys use loading devices to stuff their magazines because of convenience.

However, the learning and dexterity of being able to swiftly load a stuffed mag with your bare hands comes with avoidance.

So back to holster mag changes, what practice opportunities are missed with this practice?

We are what we practice. Good or bad. Just saying.

 

[ditcherman]

Agreeing with bw above, and to answer your last question, what is missed in a class setting is the instructions being given. I can do this blindfolded, or while giving my attention to something else (instructor) to be ready for the next drill. This includes AIWB, regular on the belt and battle belt scenarios.
Another thing that’s missed is getting kicked out of class for drawing, just to freshen up.

I think this is just one category of admin reload.

I also think there are no uncle mikes floppy holsters in the classes I attend (or any) and no one that comes to my range with an uncle mikes type floppy would be allowed to do this kind of reload.

 

[Trapper Jim]

Agreeing with bw above, and to answer your last question, what is missed in a class setting is the instructions being given. I can do this blindfolded, or while giving my attention to something else (instructor) to be ready for the next drill. This includes AIWB, regular on the belt and battle belt scenarios.
Another thing that’s missed is getting kicked out of class for drawing, just to freshen up.

I think this is just one category of admin reload.

I also think there are no uncle mikes floppy holsters in the classes I attend (or any) and no one that comes to my range with an uncle mikes type floppy would be allowed to do this kind of reload.

I get it. You can do it well but that may not be the masses. One question though, how often are holstering a half empty gun (not ready for the next drill) on a hot range exercise?

 

[Trapper Jim]

I'm with you about mag-changing a holstered gun not being best practice. Reloading while holstered is a gimmick to top off with a cold range preventing you from drawing. "oops, forgot to reload before holstering and calling the range cold but I still need to top off". I've done it and my holsters are cut for it. I've also failed to fully seat the mag doing it which is just one failure mode.


An administrative reload is just topping off before you're empty and when you aren't racing the clock to put more rounds down range. Can be done with the gun drawn or, as the OP is lamenting, with the gun holstered (as long as the holster allows hitting the mag release).

I have observed shooters lifting the gun to facilitate activating the release. Usually when they think no one is watching.

The uncertainty of what condition your weapon is in leads to press checking before the drill. Never quite understood not doing the press check when holstering a fully loaded gun.

 

[churchmouse]

I got my butt chewed harshly for even messing with my holstered weapon in a cold range at a class. Instructor lost his mind over me doing exactly this. Refreshing/topping off before the next drill which I am good at doing.

 

[gregkl]

I don't consider an administrative reload to be only changing mags while in the holster. On that particular option I have been largely ambivalent although now that I know you and Richard Mann oppose it, I may look it it with new favor. In my mind and experience an Administrative reload is simply a reload that is not done "on the clock" as it were, simply topping your gun off.

I see guys all the time in training situations doing admin reloads. Maybe they are demonstrating a failure to neutralize drill. They run it a couple times, then while doing some instruction, the change out the mag with a fresh one. I have been in several live classes where the instructor does this and have watched many higher level shooters do this in videos(Mike Seeklander, Rob Leatham, several of the YouTube sensations(mil-spec mojo, Garand Thumb, John Lovell), the list can go on. And these guys range from defensive type guys to professional competitors.

Now maybe one day, when I am older I will realize that all these guys are full of it, but I practice regularly doing admin reloads so I can run my drills more efficiently and effectively. Until then I will continue on.

As far as changing mags in the holster. I see no issue. Trigger guard is secured and guarded, my mag release is available and the muzzle is pointing in a safe direction so push the release, retrieve and replace.

 

[BJHay]

fumbling around your beer belly trying to remove and insert mags, especially with fragile or sub standard holsters, is a lazy unprofessional, dangerous, waste of practice.

If your holster is substandard you should not be using it. If you have a physical impairment, like a beer belly, then modifications to your techniques are necessary so the gun can be handled in safe manner. If you're fumbling the gun because of your gut there are other safety concerns to consider before an admin reload.

I learned the admin reload from Gunsite. They require the gun to stay in the holster during the mag change. If the gun stays in the holster and the holster covers the trigger I don't see any risk in a mag change.
A holstered gun is a safe gun.

 

[ECS686]

I have observed shooters lifting the gun to facilitate activating the release. Usually when they think no one is watching.

The uncertainty of what condition your weapon is in leads to press checking before the drill. Never quite understood not doing the press check when holstering a fully loaded gun.

Sometimes flat range stuff has become to flat range!

To me press checks have become silly and YouTube theatrical these days. ESPECIALLY when they use forward slide serrations as I have seen more shooters muzzle sweep their own elbows trying to look popped collar cool while doing it.

And not to veer off topic but sort of related. In your post before you responded about maybe the Masses wouldn’t be able to. It’s like that across the board Civilian gun folks (across the board not including the professional competition crowd) are like LE. Someone said this and I have witnessed it that LE has a 10% 80% 10% breakdown. Top 10 always try and improve. Middle 80 meet (usually by just a few points) passing minimum standards and are the worst firearm handlers and have to reshoot every year) and the bottom 10 why agencies dumb stuff down

Civilians have about the same breakdown. All these gun carry minded folks but only around 10,000 of them going to actual professional industry training and putting in the practice to improve

 

[Born2vette]

 

[JettaKnight]

I thought this thread would be about new INGO mods.


I guess I learned a term for a silly handgun maneuver.

 

[gregkl]

Sometimes flat range stuff has become to flat range!

To me press checks have become silly and YouTube theatrical these days. ESPECIALLY when they use forward slide serrations as I have seen more shooters muzzle sweep their own elbows trying to look popped collar cool while doing it.

I was told once at a class that I had to do press checks even though I can see the brass through the loaded indicator.

I complied but I still don't see the need. It is clearly visible.

 

[Trapper Jim]

If your holster is substandard you should not be using it. If you have a physical impairment, like a beer belly, then modifications to your techniques are necessary so the gun can be handled in safe manner. If you're fumbling the gun because of your gut there are other safety concerns to consider before an admin reload.

I learned the admin reload from Gunsite. They require the gun to stay in the holster during the mag change. If the gun stays in the holster and the holster covers the trigger I don't see any risk in a mag change.
A holstered gun is a safe gun.

As a trainer on the line with multiple students the need for not presenting the gun for loading arose for safety concern especially on a hot line. It has to be that way for a line because it’s hard to watch that many people. A byproduct if you will because of line layout, trainer to student ratio, and not being able to trust the noobs.

So, because the student accepted this wasted shortcut, he assumes it was a forever practice. A training scar from training if you will.

Just my opinion but I believe in bringing the gun into your workspace for manipulating 100 percent of the time for personal use and under RO commands for sports and training exercises.

If I am at a hot range, I recharge and check before holstering after the drill or street work. No need for me to press check before next string as unless the gun has been out of my control, I always go into battle with a full tank. Same reason I don’t EVER put partial or empty mags in my pouches.

 

[MCgrease08]

As a trainer on the line with multiple students the need for not presenting the gun for loading arose for safety concern especially on a hot line. It has to be that way for a line because it’s hard to watch that many people. A byproduct if you will because of line layout, trainer to student ratio, and not being able to trust the noobs.

So, because the student accepted this wasted shortcut, he assumes it was a forever practice. A training scar from training if you will.

Just my opinion but I believe in bringing the gun into your workspace for manipulating 100 percent of the time for personal use and under RO commands for sports and training exercises.

If I am at a hot range, I recharge and check before holstering after the drill or street work. No need for me to press check before next string as unless the gun has been out of my control, I always go into battle with a full tank. Same reason I don’t EVER put partial or empty mags in my pouches.

What if the drill requires partial or empty mags?