Anyone Co-Witnessing on their Carry Gun? [I'm REALLY Picky]

[WebSnyper]

Here’s my setup on a P320 X-Carry.

I wish the xCompact was setup that way with a rear sight separate from the cover plate. I think I heard somewhere that xCompacts will get the same treatment at some point and have a change on future builds. I picked up my xCompact used for a really good deal, so I'm still happy with it, but seemed short sighted on Sig's part to mount the sight on the rear plate and expect folks would not want to cowitness, though it seems their model with the red dot already mounted from the factory already has it setup that way? https://www.sigsauer.com/store/p320-xcompact-rxp.html

 

[ACC]

Over the past year I have gone to red dot set ups on all my carry guns. I will ONLY do this with co-witnessing sights. Here is what I have that works for me:

* CZ P-10C with Shield RMS, Dawson Precision black rear sight & fiber optics front sight. These are not suppressor height sights as the RMS does not need them.

* Glock 19/M&P 9 2.0. Both milled for RMR06 with Trijicon Suppressor Height Night sights (black rear with tritium inserts and orange dot from sights.

* P320 RX with Romeo 1 and Sig Lite Suppressor Height Night Sights (black rear, green dot front)

PM me if you want to see pictures of any of these set ups.

 

[Tombs]

I do not recommend doing co-witness with a red dot until you've used one for a fairly long time.
The iron sights will make you dependent on them when you need to be dependent on your muscle memory to utilize a dot sight on a handgun correctly.
If you're using the iron sights to find the dot, you might as well not run a dot sight. It's causing you to lose every advantage the dot offers you.

I'd go as far as recommending you remove your front sight when you begin with a handgun RDS. And that do not re-install it until you are 100% consistent on your draw, finding the dot every time, and not feeling any awkwardness of any kind anymore.

You have to think about it the same way you do on a rifle. If you're running a red dot on a rifle, why would you want to exclusively find your iron sight picture, refine it, and then use the dot? The same applies with a handgun, it just takes a lot more practice.

As far as to whether cowitnessing would even matter... Well a type 2 RM06 isn't going down from any abuse you'll put it through, maybe if you forget to change the battery every year. If it gets packed with mud, you won't be able to use cowitnessing irons anyway. If anything obstructs the screen, you won't be using the irons anyway.

 

[krizzz]

Over the past year I have gone to red dot set ups on all my carry guns. I will ONLY do this with co-witnessing sights. Here is what I have that works for me:

* CZ P-10C with Shield RMS, Dawson Precision black rear sight & fiber optics front sight. These are not suppressor height sights as the RMS does not need them.

* Glock 19/M&P 9 2.0. Both milled for RMR06 with Trijicon Suppressor Height Night sights (black rear with tritium inserts and orange dot from sights.

* P320 RX with Romeo 1 and Sig Lite Suppressor Height Night Sights (black rear, green dot front)

PM me if you want to see pictures of any of these set ups.

I don't have enough posts to send PMs, so I'll clog the forum. I've looked at doing the P10C, VP9, and a few others with the Shield RMS but don't see a mounting plate for any of them. What did you use? I'd love to see a pic.

 

[NHT3]

I think there's a model or two that will co-witness with factory sights but I can tell you that it's not possible with a Glock. You will reach the pocket for the FPS long before machining down far enough.. Deltapoint has a block plate you remove to put their $80 rear sight on and you will still need a front sight at least a half inch tall. I made my own rear sight with the block plate but it still takes a pretty tall front.
I've talked with the owner at Parabellum about having a class at Parabellum to assist in transitioning from sights to a red dot but everything is on hold because of current events.

 

[nad63]

I do not recommend doing co-witness with a red dot until you've used one for a fairly long time.
The iron sights will make you dependent on them when you need to be dependent on your muscle memory to utilize a dot sight on a handgun correctly.
If you're using the iron sights to find the dot, you might as well not run a dot sight. It's causing you to lose every advantage the dot offers you.

I'd go as far as recommending you remove your front sight when you begin with a handgun RDS. And that do not re-install it until you are 100% consistent on your draw, finding the dot every time, and not feeling any awkwardness of any kind anymore.

You have to think about it the same way you do on a rifle. If you're running a red dot on a rifle, why would you want to exclusively find your iron sight picture, refine it, and then use the dot? The same applies with a handgun, it just takes a lot more practice.

As far as to whether cowitnessing would even matter... Well a type 2 RM06 isn't going down from any abuse you'll put it through, maybe if you forget to change the battery every year. If it gets packed with mud, you won't be able to use cowitnessing irons anyway. If anything obstructs the screen, you won't be using the irons anyway.

Good stuff right here.
I’ll toss in that 1/3 cowitness for RMR is preferable over absolute cowitness as your fov is better.
I was worried about not having rear night sights for a low light shoot but it was a non issue.
No issue with WML or hand held light with the red dot on or off.
The red dot is a game changer especially when you get on in years.
I have shot night sights, red dot and green laser plus wml and it can be done without too much difficulty. You tend to tune out what you don’t need kind of like being married!
Benefit of the laser being you don’t need a sight picture if you can’t get one. As long as you can see the laser dot you are good to go, not withstanding the usual caveats about positively identifying your target and what’s behind....

 

[Dean C.]

I think there's a model or two that will co-witness with factory sights but I can tell you that it's not possible with a Glock. You will reach the pocket for the FPS long before machining down far enough.. Deltapoint has a block plate you remove to put their $80 rear sight on and you will still need a front sight at least a half inch tall. I made my own rear sight with the block plate but it still takes a pretty tall front.
I've talked with the owner at Parabellum about having a class at Parabellum to assist in transitioning from sights to a red dot but everything is on hold because of current events.

https://dawsonprecision.com/dawson-...ro-vortex-razor-and-similar-red-dot-scopes-2/

Might want to look at Dawson Precisions set up, $80 for front and rear sights and the drop in Dawson rear sight for the DDP is quite good IMHO

 

[NHT3]

https://dawsonprecision.com/dawson-...ro-vortex-razor-and-similar-red-dot-scopes-2/

Might want to look at Dawson Precisions set up, $80 for front and rear sights and the drop in Dawson rear sight for the DDP is quite good IMHO

Dawson makes great stuff and the price is reasonable, that's the only place I know of that will let you specify the height of the site. That only works if you still have a rear dovetail, which I don't on this particular setup

[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” ….Coach[/FONT]

 

[Dean C.]

Dawson makes great stuff and the price is reasonable, that's the only place I know of that will let you specify the height of the site. That only works if you still have a rear dovetail, which I don't on this particular setup

[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” ….Coach[/FONT]

My mistake, I figured the rear could just mount to the DPP like it does with my DUO system. On my STI you just remove the rear sight plate on the DPP and then drop in the rear sight. Maybe they will do something like that for the Glock in the future ?

 

[WebSnyper]

My mistake, I figured the rear could just mount to the DPP like it does with my DUO system. On my STI you just remove the rear sight plate on the DPP and then drop in the rear sight. Maybe they will do something like that for the Glock in the future ?

I wasn't aware of that with the Delta Point Pro. Makes sense now as to why the Sig xCompact has the rear sight remove with the plate if they expect you would mount a sight to the back of the DPP...

 

[Dean C.]

I wasn't aware of that with the Delta Point Pro. Makes sense now as to why the Sig xCompact has the rear sight remove with the plate if they expect you would mount a sight to the back of the DPP...

Again it might just be my DUO system that has it (an extra $500 upcharge to the pistol) even the RMR adaptor plate it comes with has a built in correct height rear sight. I would call Dawson to confirm that it would work with a Glock or similar

To show how the rear sight interfaces with the DPP

 

[WebSnyper]

Again it might just be my DUO system that has it (an extra $500 upcharge to the pistol) even the RMR adaptor plate it comes with has a built in correct height rear sight. I would call Dawson to confirm that it would work with a Glock or similar

To show how the rear sight interfaces with the DPP

Interesting, when you mentioned it I looked this up:

https://www.leupold.com/gear-and-accessories/accessories/deltapoint-pro-rear-iron-sight

 

[cedartop]

Im heavily into this but for me ive never quite been able to pull the trigger.

Im surprised no one has mentioned the sig Romeo 0 or jpoint as they are way less inexpensive co witness capable micro red dots. My issue is ive got a sig p365 and as soon as i find a place to finally sell me a sig romeo 0 or j point ill be doing the conversion. No one seems to have either in stock currently, but if your just starting to think about this then the wait might work out. Both models use the same milling and mount pattern of the rmsc while the trijcon is different being a bit wider.

If my new Holosun K ever comes in, I will probably give this pos romeo zero away.

 

[drillsgt]

I do not recommend doing co-witness with a red dot until you've used one for a fairly long time.
The iron sights will make you dependent on them when you need to be dependent on your muscle memory to utilize a dot sight on a handgun correctly.
If you're using the iron sights to find the dot, you might as well not run a dot sight. It's causing you to lose every advantage the dot offers you.

I'd go as far as recommending you remove your front sight when you begin with a handgun RDS. And that do not re-install it until you are 100% consistent on your draw, finding the dot every time, and not feeling any awkwardness of any kind anymore.

You have to think about it the same way you do on a rifle. If you're running a red dot on a rifle, why would you want to exclusively find your iron sight picture, refine it, and then use the dot? The same applies with a handgun, it just takes a lot more practice.

As far as to whether cowitnessing would even matter... Well a type 2 RM06 isn't going down from any abuse you'll put it through, maybe if you forget to change the battery every year. If it gets packed with mud, you won't be able to use cowitnessing irons anyway. If anything obstructs the screen, you won't be using the irons anyway.

For the purposes of this thread I took the term 'co-witnessing' by the OP to mean basically he wanted to run a red dot with a set of fixed sights. Originally they said "Co-witness BOTH sights (some guns remove the rear sight to add the red dot" . You may be over complicating the issue.

 

[ACC]

I don't have enough posts to send PMs, so I'll clog the forum. I've looked at doing the P10C, VP9, and a few others with the Shield RMS but don't see a mounting plate for any of them. What did you use? I'd love to see a pic.

I had the P10C slide milled for the Shield RMS. Here she is:

 

[gregkl]

I had the P10C slide milled for the Shield RMS. Here she is:

Is that M2.0 a full size? I have a 2.0 compact and was told there is not enough room for a rear sight.

 

[ACC]

Is that M2.0 a full size? I have a 2.0 compact and was told there is not enough room for a rear sight.

It is a M&P 9 2.0 Compact. There is enough room if you mill the RMR into the factory M&P dovetail space and then mill a rear Glock dovetail just behind the RMR milling. Then you have to get a Glock suppressor height rear sight and a S&W suppressor height front sight. ZR Tactical did all the machine work and I installed the sights that I was able to purchase together from 10-8 sights. If you want more details, PM me.

 

[jfed85]

This is my G45 MOS and holosun 507c green dot.

ameriglo suppressor height sights.

rides in a kobra kydex iwb light bearing holster.

wasnt exactly the co-witness I was going for but I don’t mind it now that I’m used to it, especially since the sights are basically a back up anyway.

 

[krizzz]

For the purposes of this thread I took the term 'co-witnessing' by the OP to mean basically he wanted to run a red dot with a set of fixed sights. Originally they said "Co-witness BOTH sights (some guns remove the rear sight to add the red dot" . You may be over complicating the issue.

That is correct. Exactly what I was trying to say.

And kudos to all who jumped in on this thread. It's been extremely helpful.

 

[krizzz]

I had the P10C slide milled for the Shield RMS. Here she is:

Thank you ACC. That's probably the setup I'm going to go with. Unless you have any concerns with the CZ P10C.