AR-15 Home Defense Build

[st8kfinger]

What do the cops/detectives do about an AR with a stamp or two that is used in a self defense shooting? How long will they keep it?

One of my friends never got his gun back and their were no charges against him and I had a house fire in the same city and it took hiring a lawyer to get my guns and ammo the police took out of a locked gun cabinent. I just consider the price of a defensive weapon a one time insurance payment.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

One of my friends never got his gun back and their were no charges against him and I had a house fire in the same city and it took hiring a lawyer to get my guns and ammo the police took out of a locked gun cabinent. I just consider the price of a defensive weapon a one time insurance payment.

Unfortunately this is the world we live in. I'm gonna be mad as hell is I ever lose a firearm to the police, but if I were able to save a family member it would have been worth it anyway.

On the .300 Blackout ammo question, It is nice to have the ability to shoot the very quiet subsonic rounds with a can, but I would only do so where the quiet outweighs the performance I want. This is not in a life and death situation. I would never choose a subsonic round as a HD round in a rifle. My whole reason to going with a .300 Blackout is to maximize the ballistic energy I give up by going with a short barrel in 5.56/.223. Limiting myself to a subsonic round would be no better than using a handgun. Barns 110 gr black tips are the round for bag guys. I would use 130 gr Hog Hammers if I had them as well. Like wild pigs, criminals are also pests to be put down.

 

[DanVoils]

What ammo do you use in the 300 that you trust? I have yet to find any subsonic that wasn't ballistically pretty much like .45 acp. Leaning toward 110 gr tipped which are supers but still well into hearing safe.

I like the Parabellum Ammo from AGS Armament. 20 rounds for $16. It's 178gr AMAX Subsonic. I've tried some others but wasn't impressed enough to buy a decent amount. I've shot over 250 rounds of this with zero problems. I was hitting full size steel at 100 yards with a small amount of holdover. I have the red dot zero'd for 50 yards and at 50 it is dead on. The red dot is a Vortex Spitfire AR. When the weather breaks again I plan on soaking a bunch of phone books and shooting them to see the expansion of the bullet. (Water soaked phone books emulate ballistic gel.)
Dan

 

[dudley0]

Very interested in seeing what the outcome is of your test. I have 220 gr subs for fun shooting but went with the 110 gr for potential HD use. I have shot 125 gr supers and they are hearing safe.

Just not much real world data, which is why I still have the 5.56 sitting there waiting for the day I hope never comes.

 

[DanVoils]

Very interested in seeing what the outcome is of your test. I have 220 gr subs for fun shooting but went with the 110 gr for potential HD use. I have shot 125 gr supers and they are hearing safe.

Just not much real world data, which is why I still have the 5.56 sitting there waiting for the day I hope never comes.

I have 152gr supers that I consider hearing safe outside but probably not inside.
Dan

 

[dudley0]

Just because I was wondering, I loaded one round of 123 gr super in a mag. Went to the smallest room with a window, which was a bathroom with tiled walls. Opened the window and popped the round off with the can well inside. Definitely louder inside than under an awning. No ringing, no disorientation and no concussive force like with a 7" barrel 5.56. More sound hit the right side because of ejection (and maybe because only one round in the mag?).

While I wouldn't suggest doing a mag dump like this for fun, it is something that will not hurt or disorientate the shooter... especially if you are having a nice adrenaline dump while it happens. At least now I know it won't stagger me if I have to do it in a defensive shoot in the house. I imagine that rooms with furniture, carpet, wall hangings and the like which are larger will have a little less sound getting back to me.

Now to work on testing the 110 gr tipped that I am leaning toward for HD. I wasn't going to put a red dot on this because of the short ranges, but I do not see me being able to get the irons on fast like in short distance and with what will most likely be poor lighting. So now I need to look for deals on another Aimpoint it seems. Nothing like waiting until all the holiday sales are over.

 

[DanVoils]

Just because I was wondering, I loaded one round of 123 gr super in a mag. Went to the smallest room with a window, which was a bathroom with tiled walls. Opened the window and popped the round off with the can well inside. Definitely louder inside than under an awning. No ringing, no disorientation and no concussive force like with a 7" barrel 5.56. More sound hit the right side because of ejection (and maybe because only one round in the mag?).

While I wouldn't suggest doing a mag dump like this for fun, it is something that will not hurt or disorientate the shooter... especially if you are having a nice adrenaline dump while it happens. At least now I know it won't stagger me if I have to do it in a defensive shoot in the house. I imagine that rooms with furniture, carpet, wall hangings and the like which are larger will have a little less sound getting back to me.

Now to work on testing the 110 gr tipped that I am leaning toward for HD. I wasn't going to put a red dot on this because of the short ranges, but I do not see me being able to get the irons on fast like in short distance and with what will most likely be poor lighting. So now I need to look for deals on another Aimpoint it seems. Nothing like waiting until all the holiday sales are over.

Very nice test. I'd do the same but the neighbors would freak out. I'll have to try it at the farm later. If you have a chance check out the Vortex Spitfire AR. It's a prismatic optic. The "dot" is etched into the prism and is surrounded by a circle. This gives the hold over. The etching is black and shows up without any lighting. If you need lighting a simple touch of a button will turn on either red or green at the previously selected illumination. I seriously considered an Aimpoint until I tried this one and some of the other Vortex's.
Dan

 

[dudley0]

They do not have the battery life I am looking for. I want it on all the time like my PRO, but don't want to swap them over when I am not sure of the .300 just yet. Also don't want to swap batteries every week, nor am I fond of having to turn it on in a panic.

As for the test... I just made sure I collected my brass. I used to shoot a lot of .22lr from another SBR out the windows. Got in trouble on more than one occasion when the wife or kids had empties in their shoes. I was going to test the 5.56 but I am sure it is much louder. Not positive it will hurt the ears... but possibly uncomfortable. Maybe the next time everyone else is gone... just in case.

 

[KJQ6945]

They do not have the battery life I am looking for. I want it on all the time like my PRO, but don't want to swap them over when I am not sure of the .300 just yet. Also don't want to swap batteries every week, nor am I fond of having to turn it on in a panic.

As for the test... I just made sure I collected my brass. I used to shoot a lot of .22lr from another SBR out the windows. Got in trouble on more than one occasion when the wife or kids had empties in their shoes. I was going to test the 5.56 but I am sure it is much louder. Not positive it will hurt the ears... but possibly uncomfortable. Maybe the next time everyone else is gone... just in case.

Good on you for testing. Something to keep in mind though, you don't get a sonic boom as soon as the bullet leaves the muzzle. How far it takes, I'm not sure. 5.56 suppressed is fine inside the house within a few feet of the open door. I HAD a groundhog under my barn this summer.

 

[KJQ6945]

On the .300 Blackout ammo question, It is nice to have the ability to shoot the very quiet subsonic rounds with a can, but I would only do so where the quiet outweighs the performance I want. This is not in a life and death situation. I would never choose a subsonic round as a HD round in a rifle. My whole reason to going with a .300 Blackout is to maximize the ballistic energy I give up by going with a short barrel in 5.56/.223. Limiting myself to a subsonic round would be no better than using a handgun. Barns 110 gr black tips are the round for bag guys. I would use 130 gr Hog Hammers if I had them as well. Like wild pigs, criminals are also pests to be put down.

Well said!

I've never understood the .300 blackout craze, especially concerning home defense. People praise it because you can shoot it sub sonic. But, as you said, sub sonic .300 is a hand gun round. Specifically, .45acp, it offers very little over it.

The only advantages to .300 I see,
easily adapted to the AR platform, (barrel swap), uses AR mags, and hunting legal with a 16" barrel.

On the down side, the ammo is twice the price of .45, but offers no improvement.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

Well said!

I've never understood the .300 blackout craze, especially concerning home defense. People praise it because you can shoot it sub sonic. But, as you said, sub sonic .300 is a hand gun round. Specifically, .45acp, it offers very little over it.

The only advantages to .300 I see,
easily adapted to the AR platform, (barrel swap), uses AR mags, and hunting legal with a 16" barrel.

On the down side, the ammo is twice the price of .45, but offers no improvement.

The subsonic rounds (with a suppressor) can be very very quiet. Pretty sure that's were the craze got all it's momentum.

This was not my main goal. I went with the .300 because the supersonic rounds offer a bit more punch than the 5.56/.223 when shot out of such a short barrel. My goal was to have a short package, while keeping as much power as I could. The supersonic .300 Blackout rounds give me this.

 

[=Josh=]

If I want to build an SBR by buying pieces at a time, I understand that I would need to get an NFA stamp. My question becomes: at what point can I fill out the NFA Form 1? Do I just need the receiver S/N and an estimate of the barrel/overall length? If, after I get my stamp, I decide to do something that changes the barrel/overall length, is that a problem?

 

[DanVoils]

If I want to build an SBR by buying pieces at a time, I understand that I would need to get an NFA stamp. My question becomes: at what point can I fill out the NFA Form 1? Do I just need the receiver S/N and an estimate of the barrel/overall length? If, after I get my stamp, I decide to do something that changes the barrel/overall length, is that a problem?

Correct. You SBR the lower with a projected length of upper. I swap uppers a lot depending on who's shooting that day. I also have a couple of AR pistol lowers with KAK Blades on them. That way if they want to shoot one of them I don't have to swap out the upper but I can if needed. Basically get the lower you want to SBR first. It will have the model and serial numbers the BATFE needs. Then you can start getting the rest of the parts you need. Personally I built all my SBR's up as pistols to ensure full functionality. Once I received the stamp I changed out the buffer tube and added the stock.

 

[KG1]

Correct. You SBR the lower with a projected length of upper. I swap uppers a lot depending on who's shooting that day. I also have a couple of AR pistol lowers with KAK Blades on them. That way if they want to shoot one of them I don't have to swap out the upper but I can if needed. Basically get the lower you want to SBR first. It will have the model and serial numbers the BATFE needs. Then you can start getting the rest of the parts you need. Personally I built all my SBR's up as pistols to ensure full functionality. Once I received the stamp I changed out the buffer tube and added the stock.

This is the way to go IMO. That way you can still use it while you wait for the paperwork to come back.

 

[Tomahawkman]

My HD rifle is this.

BCM upper 14.5 inch pinned and welded.

If it were a dedicated HD rifle the main change I would make here is a different muzzle device. Currently running a surefire dual port break, very loud, hence the equipped surefire warden to tame and redirect.

Soon to come is going to be a SR-07 switch for the surefire and its getting moved to the right side of gun for better ergos.

Ideally it would be a SBR, but I dont want to get into tax stamps right now.

I would change those things but this is my only complete rifle and its not dedicated to HD. Hopefully I can get one built for that soon.

Flashlight is big though, you should have it mounted in such a way to easily use momentary on function and still maintain a good shooting grip on the gun. Also get a sling so if you go hands on with Mr. Dirt Bag you aren't giving him access to your weapon. I like the Blue Force Gear combat applications sling (not the one pictured) very comfortable and allows fast adjustment.

 

[=Josh=]

Personally I built all my SBR's up as pistols to ensure full functionality. Once I received the stamp I changed out the buffer tube and added the stock.

This is the way to go IMO. That way you can still use it while you wait for the paperwork to come back.

To be honest, I suspect that it will probably take me at least a year (if not more) to purchase all of the components that I'll need anyway, so I doubt I'll build it as a pistol first. I would just buy the receiver first to get the paperwork started and expect that I would have my stamp back long before I have everything to actually assemble. Actually, my first step would be to setup an NFA trust and then buy the receiver.

Any suggestions or comments on what lower to look for? I'm a complete newbie here, so bare with me.

 

[Rookie]

Are you a lefty? If so, get an ambidextrous lower. If not, any lower that you like.

 

[Floivanus]

Well said!

I've never understood the .300 blackout craze, especially concerning home defense. People praise it because you can shoot it sub sonic. But, as you said, sub sonic .300 is a hand gun round. Specifically, .45acp, it offers very little over it.

The only advantages to .300 I see,
easily adapted to the AR platform, (barrel swap), uses AR mags, and hunting legal with a 16" barrel.

On the down side, the ammo is twice the price of .45, but offers no improvement.

And all of the upside of supersonic 300 blk could be had with 7.62 39 with a much lower per round price. I'm also certain that if you wanted to reload your own there are subsonic specs for 7.62 as well. Everyone I know with an AR has at least one with a 300 AAC upper setup.

 

[KG1]

Yeah it does'nt take any special kind of lower to start a SBR. You don't have to spend top dollar on a lower but I would also not cheap out. Alot of people like Anderson lowers for budget builds but if I'm going the SBR route I would choose a different lower. Aero Precision, Spikes Tactical, even Palmetto State Armory to name a few.

 

[DanVoils]

Yeah it does'nt take any special kind of lower to start a SBR. You don't have to spend top dollar on a lower but I would also not cheap out. Alot of people like Anderson lowers for budget builds but if I'm going the SBR route I would choose a different lower. Aero Precision, Spikes Tactical, even Palmetto State Armory to name a few.

2 of my SBR's are Anderson lowers. I've had zero problems or complaints with them.
Dan