AR newb question

[Indye41]

I am planning to purchase my first AR and was hoping to get some advice before I make my final decision. Currently stuck on buying something out of the box, like a M&P15, or Putting together an AR pistol, nothing to crazy; complete upper (10.5 barrel) and complete pistol lower, add sights/optic.

My question would be to the AR vets here is: does it make more sense to get a complete AR to learn on, find the things I like/dislike OR just get the pistol and deal with issues as they come, if they come?

I would prefer the pistol over the standard AR, only because i see the pistol as a viable HD choice; overall length. I feel all of my firearm purchases should have the ability to be put into service for HD. But I am not sure if one should have some knowledge of AR's before going the pistol route

 

[atalon]

I think you have some confusion in terms. An "AR Pistol" is one with a barrel less than 16 inches and no stock (still has the buffer tube) so it is not adjustable or variable unless you are thinking varying barrel lengths. You could also be referring to a SBR (Short Barreled Rifle) which has a stock that can be adjustable and a shorter than 16 inch barrel. The SBR however, will require the $200 tax stamp and paperwork wait time.

Also, this may be my ignorance, but I am not sure what you mean by "variable HD choice"

 

[Indye41]

Well... when I was referring to a pistol, I was speaking of an AR with out a stock and a short barrel, more then likely 10.5. This would be to avoid the SBR tax stamp.

Oh and the word I used was viable, meaning feasible, capable of working successfully

 

[netsecurity]

IMO AR-15 or any other rifles in pistol format just suck. You can't hold then like a real pistol, because they are heavy and off balance, and you cannot use a shoulder stock (legally). So accuracy suffers big time. You cannot even add a VFG. The whole fun of an AR-15 is to make accurate hits up to 300y, but in pistol format, you may be limited to maybe 50y? I dunno, but it aint for me. I tried it once and was really disappointed.

I'd suggest a Regular carbine, and to take your time and get an SBR stamp if you decide to go short barrel. But be warned, short barrels are very loud. Even with a 16" barrel you will probably get hearing damage if you fire it in doors for HD. Best bet is an SBR with a suppressor IMO for HD and range fun all in one.

 

[Hop]

I'm not a big fan of the AR pistol. I just waited for my ATF tax stamp before slapping on the 10.3" upper. I used a 14.5" with a pinned & welded 1.5" Battle Comp and think it's a great length for a HD gun & has been very reliable.

 

[Mgderf]

It's just my opinion, but I don't think an AR15 is a wise choice for HD unless maybe it's in a pistol cartridge (ie...9mm)

.223 has too much chance for over-penetration and collateral damages.

New complete, or assembled by you, they'll both be basically the same gun. I was trained on the M16A2 in boot camp.
I built my first AR15 just because I wanted to understand it's workings better.

When I was but a wee lad, closer to the time of the dinosaurs, I had what was known as an "Erector-Set". This was nothing more than a box full of steel straps with holes, bolts, washers, nuts, wheels, and a few other what-nots.
It was sort of like Lego's, but with sharp edges and small parts that were easily swallowed, thus becoming a choking hazard.

Anyway, I digress. These Erector-Sets were a great teaching tool for basic mechanics. It taught the relationship between parts, how they interacted, and it taught assembly skills.
It was simple, and a little dangerous, but TONS of fun for me, and hours of relief for my parents.

If you've ever put together a detailed plastic model, or owned an Erector-Set, you have the basic skills required to assemble an AR15.

Do it yourself. It's easy, it's fun, and you'll have a much better understanding of your firearm.

This is just my opinion.

 

[echoagain]

The AR pistols have always seemed like more of a novelty item then a truly practical firearm. A 16inch AR with collapsible stock makes for a really compact weapon as-is, and suitable for plinking, some hunting applications and home defense. The decision is buy complete or build is totally up to you. I like to build, but from a $$ standpoint I probably would have saved money in the long run to buy a complete rifle to start with. Be warned, that AR's are very addictive (aka 'black rifle disease'), there is treatment available (more AR's) but it is expensive and there is no known cure.

 

[MontereyC6]

IMO AR-15 or any other rifles in pistol format just suck. You can't hold then like a real pistol, because they are heavy and off balance, and you cannot use a shoulder stock (legally). So accuracy suffers big time. You cannot even add a VFG. The whole fun of an AR-15 is to make accurate hits up to 300y, but in pistol format, you may be limited to maybe 50y? I dunno, but it aint for me. I tried it once and was really disappointed.

I'd suggest a Regular carbine, and to take your time and get an SBR stamp if you decide to go short barrel. But be warned, short barrels are very loud. Even with a 16" barrel you will probably get hearing damage if you fire it in doors for HD. Best bet is an SBR with a suppressor IMO for HD and range fun all in one.

Quoted for truth. An Ar pistol for HD, isn't worth it IMHO. Go ahead and get a 16", and take a few classes to learn how to use in a home defensive situation. I have a 10.5" SBR and it is exceptionally LOUD! Will I use it for home defense? Absolutely. My next NFA purchase will be a can for it.

 

[Indye41]

Quoted for truth. An Ar pistol for HD, isn't worth it IMHO. Go ahead and get a 16", and take a few classes to learn how to use in a home defensive situation. I have a 10.5" SBR and it is exceptionally LOUD! Will I use it for home defense? Absolutely. My next NFA purchase will be a can for it.

So a stock puts the pistol at a disadvantage for HD compared to your SBR? I have read that pistols/sbr can be very loud and a suppressor is the way to go, maybe get the pistol and use it will waiting on the stamps for the can and sbr.

 

[MontereyC6]

So a stock puts the pistol at a disadvantage for HD compared to your SBR? I have read that pistols/sbr can be very loud and a suppressor is the way to go, maybe get the pistol and use it will waiting on the stamps for the can and sbr.

No stock puts the pistol at a disadvantage. A pistol buffer tube is next to impossible to shoulder correctly. Trying to hold it like a pistol is difficult due to the weight and balance.

 

[Bennettjh]

I would skip the AR pistol and get a rifle. As far as building vs. buying, that's up to you, I agree with Mgderf on that.

 

[mvician]

Buy your first AR15. Learn it, know it. Then build what ever you want.

 

[atalon]

Ah that makes sense now.

These other guys said it. Pistol of more for fun I think personally. There are other better choices if you live in an urban area. If you live in the county and know where possible family would be behind walls it could work but still have to be careful.

If you like to tinker then building is the way to go because you can select all the parts you want and not have to replace anything you don't. If not a tinkerer then buying one with a warranty is where it's at.

 

[djhuckle]

Ah that makes sense now.

These other guys said it. Pistol of more for fun I think personally. There are other better choices if you live in an urban area. If you live in the county and know where possible family would be behind walls it could work but still have to be careful.

If you like to tinker then building is the way to go because you can select all the parts you want and not have to replace anything you don't. If not a tinkerer then buying one with a warranty is where it's at.

Definitely do research either way you go since there are options and upgrades at every point of the rifle. Upgrades do not have to cost a lot more and I would say anything over $1200 you are probably paying for a name. Sure a lot of the parts may be upgrades but do you really need 22" chrome rims on your car? If so, do it.

Problem is, some of the lower priced models cut corners to meet a price and for a little more (maybe with another manuf, maybe just another level up with the same guys), you get a better product. So much info out there, so don't get overwhelmed but look for similarities in what posts say. The cream always rises to the top (unless there's a huge advertizing budget LOL).

 

[threedhuntr]

Buy your first AR15. Learn it, know it. Then build what ever you want.

^^^^^^^ This

 

[Small's]

I would go with a 14.5"-16". I would either build one with quality parts "a little bit cheaper" or by a colt, daniel defense, bcm and a few others.. Lower end ar15's are not build to the same standards. What im saying is alot of the bcg arent milspec metals or barrels, some Bcg and barrels arent mpi/hpt tested or if they are its batch tested. gas keys arent properly staked,non mispec buffer tubes. Some are milspec size but made of 6061 instead of 7075. 7075 is a stronger metal. I bought a bushmaster m4a3 back in 08 thinking they where one of the best. Now i know the gas key isnt properly staked "could cause major issues" the bcg probably isnt mpi/hpt tested and it has a commercial buffer tube. All things which make production cheaper "non milspec". That being said i have never had a problem with it but if i would have known then what i know now i would have bought a colt 6920 for just a few more dollars. Most cheaper AR's will be fine for just shooting but if you run them hard "carbine class" they are more likely to have break downs like bcg's breaking, buffer tube springs breaking etc. There is a reason they are cheaper. Oh and when a company says milspec, it doesnt always mean it's milspec kinda how oil companies do with synthetic oil labels that really arent synthetic oil. On the home defense issue a 9mm will usually penetrate more threw walls than a 223. Short video on ballistics to back up what im saying
Terminal Ballistics - Part 3 | Down Range TV
Good ballistic info on the videos. Part 1 and 2 are also very good for those interested.

 

[Hoosierman]

Some may disagree with me but I value my hearing, and a short barrel and a rifle cartridge, fired indoors, will almost certainly cause hearing loss if not suppressed. My 18" barrel is loud enough as it is! Noise combined with the fact that there are much better self defense rounds than .223/5.56 and I won't use either one of my ARs for my standard home defense gun.When the zombies come that will change.

 

[Small's]

I agree with that. Heck to me ar15's are to loud outside. I couldnt imagine shooting one in a house. I would only do that if i had to.

 

[dubsac]

I agree with what was said before, buy then build. Mine started as this, wasn't fun to shoot. The only reason I did it this way was to posses the upper since I was planning on SBRing it.
before

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After

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[netsecurity]

Dubsac, is that a tactical tiki torch on your SBR? What will they think of next...