AR sorrows

[Jarhead77]

Well that's your problem, quit babying your AR. Just shoot it and lube it

Seriously though, glad you got the round out without having to take your barrel off.

Still seriously though, just shoot it and lube it

Even with that crater in the casing, what's the case measure at the shoulder? Is there any marks on the brass from where it got stuck?

LOL "lube it and shoot it" You are talking about the rifle, right?
Seriously, I wish I could just lube it and shoot it but cleaning it is cathartic for me.
Other than the crater, no other marks.

The OAL is spot on at 2.26!

Like I said I slid the round back in by hand with no issues and it slid right into the case gauge as well.

We will see what happens when I go back this week.

 

[M67]

Round slid in just fine?

Have you taken your BCG apart and checked to see if anything was lodged in there? Just spit balling ideas

 

[Jarhead77]

Yep, broke it all down, cleaned everything (because I can't friggin help myself), nothing unusual.

I'll measure the neck tomorrow morning to see if I had an issue there but I wouldn't think the round would slide in if I did.

 

[jblomenberg16]

Glad you were able to get the jam out. Your brake tool was similar to the method I was trying to illustrate. I've had a few similar situations with handloads in one of my precision AR's with a tight .223 chamber (my rounds had a should just a little too long for it) and my 300BLK (similar issue with the shoulder being a bit too long).

On both I've adjusted my sizing die just a little deeper so that I am absolutely sure it bottoms on the shell holder before the ram is at full stroke. I've also seen cases that have a very small bulge in the shoulder from seating with too heavy of a crimp.

 

[RDunagan]

I had the same problem. took to my smith to fix.

 

[mvician]

Steel ammo is coated with a rust preventative. The preventive coats the chamber. For what ever reason brass sticks to it very well. People that shoot steel all the time seem to only have issues when they try brass. Some chambers don't like steel at all. IE one of my RRA's. My Double Star would jam after steel if I did not scrub the bore. I gave up on steel. Your mileage may vary. Shoot it if you can or want. I avoid it like the plague.

Gawd, I wish this misinformation would stop already......

The lacquer does not melt, the polymer coating doesn't either......what happens is the steel case doesn't expand as well as a brass case and you get blow back of carbon.

 

[223 Gunner]

Steel ammo is coated with a rust preventative. The preventive coats the chamber. For what ever reason brass sticks to it very well. People that shoot steel all the time seem to only have issues when they try brass. Some chambers don't like steel at all. IE one of my RRA's. My Double Star would jam after steel if I did not scrub the bore. I gave up on steel. Your mileage may vary. Shoot it if you can or want. I avoid it like the plague.

I've been preaching that for years, only to be met with being called a gun snob. There was a review put out by lucky gunner, that after about 6 thousand rounds of steel cased ammo a barrel is "shot out". I've been of the opinion that if you put out $800 or more for a rifle, don't shoot cheap ammo, steel cased ammo out of your AR can lead to problems.

 

[223 Gunner]

Being a Former Marine myself, the Corps basically trains you to "over clean" your rifle. I had to break myself of this habit as well.
Also use something better than CLP. Try Shooter's Choice products.
As gun owners, you can over clean a weapon. Stop doing that, clean it after 3 or 4 range trips, you'll save both time, and money on cleaning products. Do you clean your car everytime you drive it? If you take something apart and put it back together all the time, you cause additional wear over time.
Uncle Sugar has an unlimited budget, so when you are cleaning your M16/M4 all the time, when they go back to the arsenal they get replacement parts as needed.
YMMV

 

[Ungie]

I am afraid that I tend to over clean. The only good news for me is that I have never had a jam. Maybe I am just lucky. I don't tend to use steel though my brother does.

 

[sig1473]

Gawd, I wish this misinformation would stop already......

The lacquer does not melt, the polymer coating doesn't either......what happens is the steel case doesn't expand as well as a brass case and you get blow back of carbon.

Pretty much sums up this site lately unfortunately.

 

[M67]

Being a Former Marine myself, the Corps basically trains you to "over clean" your rifle. I had to break myself of this habit as well.
Also use something better than CLP. Try Shooter's Choice products.
As gun owners, you can over clean a weapon. Stop doing that, clean it after 3 or 4 range trips, you'll save both time, and money on cleaning products. Do you clean your car everytime you drive it? If you take something apart and put it back together all the time, you cause additional wear over time.
Uncle Sugar has an unlimited budget, so when you are cleaning your M16/M4 all the time, when they go back to the arsenal they get replacement parts as needed.
YMMV

Slip2000 EWL, lube it, and just go out and have fun and shoot it.

I've used that car anology for quite some time. Do you tear apart your engine after every mile or do you let it go and just change the oil? Same concept. I just lube it and shoot it until it refuses to work properly

But some people, so proud of keeping their guns clean. Which I get, firearms are expensive, a big investment, and they carry a "hand down" type of thing, something you take care of. But when you baby a gun, it takes all of the ruggedness out of it. It takes away of what a firearm can actually do. But that's just my opinion

 

[Slapstick]

So... "Slamming the butt into the ground" didn't seem to help. I took a brake alignment tool and pried the BCG from inside the mag well and that did the trick.

View attachment 26059

Oh, Its a spikes tactical 1:7 5.56. Round count is well over 1000

I'm still not sure why it locked up. I have used steel cased ammo in this rifle but its been quite a while. For those of you who don't know me I am still a Jarhead at heart and clean my weapons thoroughly after every firing, even if I only fire 6 rounds, I'm cleaning it. I don't think I've had anything build up in the chamber as I use mil spec bore cleaner and CLP liberally along with a bore brush the get between and under the "star".

Regardless, the round has a significant dent in it and the tip of the round has a nice gouge in it. I put it in a case gauge and it slips right in. I also re-chambered it by hand with no issues.

I'm going to the range again this week and will give it another try.
Thank you all for your thoughts and suggestions!! I'll let you know how it goes.

From your picture of the cartridge I'm going to guess the bullet is a 55 gr Hornady spire point and that it was a reload. If so then that may be the problem. Due to the ogive on the bullet they need to be seated to the end of the cannelure if not a hair deeper for some AR's or they will contact the rifling and get stuck with the bolt out of battery, 2 of my AR's will stick and 2 won't and yes it's a pain to get the cartridge out sometimes when that happens. I've been know to hit the charging handle with a rubber mallet , (or as I like to call it a Mosin bolt release assist) I keep in my range bag to clear it.

 

[engineerpower]

Gawd, I wish this misinformation would stop already......

The lacquer does not melt, the polymer coating doesn't either......what happens is the steel case doesn't expand as well as a brass case and you get blow back of carbon.

I used to shoot Golden Tiger (when you could still find it for $200/1K), and would get a puff of sweet-smelling smoke with each shot. I haven't noticed it with any other ammo, so I assume it's either the powder being substantially different from other powders, or the lacquer is combusting to some degree. Haven't had any issues in an AK, but haven't mixed steel and brass in it either.

I agree that the concern with steel is over the limited case expansion, but I'm sure there's some residual lacquer/coat left over from the heat and pressure from each firing cycle.

 

[LEaSH]

Pretty much sums up this site lately unfortunately.

The lacquer myth goes way beyond the reaches of this site - or the internet for that matter. It's on par with the lifetime LTCH going away and o few other gems. It's standard gun shop BS.

 

[Beowulf]

I used to shoot Golden Tiger (when you could still find it for $200/1K), and would get a puff of sweet-smelling smoke with each shot. I haven't noticed it with any other ammo, so I assume it's either the powder being substantially different from other powders, or the lacquer is combusting to some degree. Haven't had any issues in an AK, but haven't mixed steel and brass in it either.

I agree that the concern with steel is over the limited case expansion, but I'm sure there's some residual lacquer/coat left over from the heat and pressure from each firing cycle.

No, mvician is right, it's the carbon build up because you don't get as good of a seal with steel case, as steel doesn't expand as well as brass. I've given up on steel cased ammo in DI ARs. It's nothing but heartbreak and sorrow. My piston driven guns seem to have no problems though (FN SCAR, FN FS2000, Galil, Yugo M85, and Arsenal SLR106U).

The Lucky Gunner testing on barrel erosion, I believe, has more to do with the steel/copper jacket that virtually all steel cased ammo uses, rather than the steel cartridge case with the polymer coat. That being said, if your AR runs steel reliably (and they had pretty good results with their Bushmasters), then it's up to you to make the calculation on whether the extra wear on the gun is balanced by the ammo savings. Back when you could get steel cased ammo for $100 or more less per 1000 than brass and ARs parts were cheap, then the money you would save more than paid for replacing the barrel and extrators.

Honestly, with the ammo crisis as it is, I haven't been steel cased for less than $300 per 1000 in a while. Meanwhile, some of the lower end brass ammo (PMC and Fiocchi, as well as some decent quality reloads and minor manufacturing shops) are selling brass cased for about $350 per 1000. At that point, to me it makes sense to switch to brass only (though I have been running the rest of my steel out of my full auto SABRE upper on my M10/45).

 

[sig1473]

The lacquer myth goes way beyond the reaches of this site - or the internet for that matter. It's on par with the lifetime LTCH going away and o few other gems. It's standard gun shop BS.

Oh, I definitely agree with you on that. I take a step back and head over to M4Carbine.net for a break sometimes. Now, those guys are just plain brutal if you make a boner comment in a thread It just seems a lot lately the same questions are being asked over and over and over again. Maybe, some don't know how to use the Search function or maybe it is just the influx of newbs. Enough of a rant and thread derailing

 

[churchmouse]

Being a Former Marine myself, the Corps basically trains you to "over clean" your rifle. I had to break myself of this habit as well.
Also use something better than CLP. Try Shooter's Choice products.
As gun owners, you can over clean a weapon. Stop doing that, clean it after 3 or 4 range trips, you'll save both time, and money on cleaning products. Do you clean your car everytime you drive it? If you take something apart and put it back together all the time, you cause additional wear over time.
Uncle Sugar has an unlimited budget, so when you are cleaning your M16/M4 all the time, when they go back to the arsenal they get replacement parts as needed.
YMMV

If I shoot over 100 rds. through anything I clean it. I have well lubed/clean guns that run near flawless. I inspect everything during cleaning as well. I have caught wear //tear before it became issues a few times by doing this.
You run your guns as you see fit. No knock on anyone's program. Considering the investment I will take exceptional care of mine.........

 

[sig1473]

If I shoot over 100 rds. through anything I clean it. I have well lubed/clean guns that run near flawless. I inspect everything during cleaning as well. I have caught wear //tear before it became issues a few times by doing this.
You run your guns as you see fit. No knock on anyone's program. Considering the investment I will take exceptional care of mine.........

+1 on that. I just got done cleaning 7 handguns yesterday with none of them being shot recently. I was just bored I guess!

 

[223 Gunner]

If I shoot over 100 rds. through anything I clean it. I have well lubed/clean guns that run near flawless. I inspect everything during cleaning as well. I have caught wear //tear before it became issues a few times by doing this.
You run your guns as you see fit. No knock on anyone's program. Considering the investment I will take exceptional care of mine.........

I have cleaned my guns like you are saying for years. It's just been the past few years, that I now run them 3 or 4 range trips before cleaning. But I usually take 4 or 5 guns with me to the range, and a realistic number of rounds per weapon is 100 or less for hand guns, and maybe 200 for a rifle, if it is a semi-auto. Bolt action rilfes, maybe 40 rounds or so. So for me, 3 or 4 range trips between cleanings is o.k.
I then do a complete detail cleaning of those guns, properly lube and oil them for storage, then pick out 4 or 5 others for the next range sessions.
For me this "system" works, it takes the pressure off of me to make sure I clean them after every trip. The only exceptions to this, is when I'm shooting a Milsurp with corossive ammo. The older I get the more value I place on my time, and although I do enjoy cleaning and detailing them. I do still work a full time job, I do side jobs, and home improvement projects, so to me my time is valuable. Plus I do use "higher" end cleaning products, this keeps them cleaner between cleanings, and saves me money by not cleaning them after every range session.

 

[churchmouse]

I have cleaned my guns like you are saying for years. It's just been the past few years, that I now run them 3 or 4 range trips before cleaning. But I usually take 4 or 5 guns with me to the range, and a realistic number of rounds per weapon is 100 or less for hand guns, and maybe 200 for a rifle, if it is a semi-auto. Bolt action rilfes, maybe 40 rounds or so. So for me, 3 or 4 range trips between cleanings is o.k.
I then do a complete detail cleaning of those guns, properly lube and oil them for storage, then pick out 4 or 5 others for the next range sessions.
For me this "system" works, it takes the pressure off of me to make sure I clean them after every trip. The only exceptions to this, is when I'm shooting a Milsurp with corossive ammo. The older I get the more value I place on my time, and although I do enjoy cleaning and detailing them. I do still work a full time job, I do side jobs, and home improvement projects, so to me my time is valuable. Plus I do use "higher" end cleaning products, this keeps them cleaner between cleanings, and saves me money by not cleaning them after every range session.

Sounds like a good program. If it works for you, perfect.....

It is nice to have a selection to choose from. I do near the same with mine. You can not shoot them all every time you go.