AR sorrows

[223 Gunner]

Sounds like a good program. If it works for you, perfect.....

It is nice to have a selection to choose from. I do near the same with mine. You can not shoot them all every time you go.

I've been "fine tuning" my collection the past couple of years. I'm "heavy" on rifles, and "light" on hand guns, so I have been buying more hand guns as of late.

 

[Jarhead77]

Well this thread went in a totally different direction! And not a bad one either!
I am with Churchmouse, I have an investment to protect and cleaning is one way of doing so. Not sure how wiping a weapon down with CLP and removing carbon is going to wear a weapon down but I'm not a molecular engineer either.

Back to the original topic, I measured the neck and shoulder and they were slightly off most likely due to a slight bulge from what appears to be an over crimp.
Lesson learned!

Some day I'll have enough invested to have to pick and choose what I fire!! I can't wait!

 

[sig1473]

I've been "fine tuning" my collection the past couple of years. I'm "heavy" on rifles, and "light" on hand guns, so I have been buying more hand guns as of late.

I'm right at about an 1:1 ratio right now, but I've been buying a lot more pistols as of late as well. I think I just might build another AR when I get back from my vacation if I don't spend too much!

 

[sig1473]

Well this thread went in a totally different direction! And not a bad one either!
I am with Churchmouse, I have an investment to protect and cleaning is one way of doing so. Not sure how wiping a weapon down with CLP and removing carbon is going to wear a weapon down but I'm not a molecular engineer either.

Back to the original topic, I measured the neck and shoulder and they were slightly off most likely due to a slight bulge from what appears to be an over crimp.
Lesson learned!

Some day I'll have enough invested to have to pick and choose what I fire!! I can't wait!

Good to hear! Now if you ever encounter the problem again, you know exactly what to do.

 

[churchmouse]

I've been "fine tuning" my collection the past couple of years. I'm "heavy" on rifles, and "light" on hand guns, so I have been buying more hand guns as of late.

We have trimmed down a bit on things that we thought were nice to have but never shot. Had several bolt guns but we are semi-auto lovers. Down to just a few bolt rifles now and shotguns.
Damn, I feel the need to oil a few guns.........

 

[223 Gunner]

We have trimmed down a bit on things that we thought were nice to have but never shot. Had several bolt guns but we are semi-auto lovers. Down to just a few bolt rifles now and shotguns.
Damn, I feel the need to oil a few guns.........

Yeah, you're retired. If I were, I'd probably do the same thing.

 

[223 Gunner]

Well this thread went in a totally different direction! And not a bad one either!
I am with Churchmouse, I have an investment to protect and cleaning is one way of doing so. Not sure how wiping a weapon down with CLP and removing carbon is going to wear a weapon down but I'm not a molecular engineer either.

Back to the original topic, I measured the neck and shoulder and they were slightly off most likely due to a slight bulge from what appears to be an over crimp.
Lesson learned!

Some day I'll have enough invested to have to pick and choose what I fire!! I can't wait!

Wiping them down with CLP will not cause wear. I just wasn't sure if you were getting it "Marine Corps" clean. In the Corps, some of that rifle cleaning is just "busy work" between classes or whatever else is going on. I'm talking about boot camp here, there was a bunch of over cleaning in boot camp. Back then when I was 18 I didn't know any better. And really it wasn't until about 10yrs ago (38) that I first heard of over cleaning, now at 48 I think there is some truth to it.

Maybe the Corps doesn't make you clean them like we did. I had an M16A1, made by GM. You could hold that sucker up, and have day light between the upper and lower. I was just trying to make a point, that if you're scrubbing on that thing like the Corps, maybe you shouldn't.
That's all. I hope I did not offend you.

 

[223 Gunner]

Jarhead77, I just checked your profile, you actually have a few years on me. I thought you were younger and fresh out of the Corps.
My apologies. I went through boot camp in 1983.

 

[rvb]

if your high-dollar "investment" is worth what you paid for it, it'll work with some rounds between cleanings. lube it and shoot it. You aren't "protecting" it by cleaning after every box of ammo.

If you're using some junk ammo that forces you to clean more often (corrosive, leads the bore, doesn't seal the chamber, etc) then adjust and clean more often as necessary. Even in my reloads I use good jacketed bullets so I don't have to worry about leading (plated would work, too).

People love to brag how awesome and reliable their stuff is, but heaven forbid it get more than a couple hundred rounds through it... all confidence in their wundergun goes out the window. I'm confident in my stuff working after a couple k rounds downrange. Why? because I almost never clean a gun that has less than that through it. And they work.

I shoot a lot less than I used to, but I'm a competitive shooter. My expensive STI open gun w/ ~60k rounds down the pipe has seen about a dozen passes with a bore brush in its life. It was my most frequently cleaned pistol (about every 2k). I've got an AR I built recently for 3-gun w/ ~1k through it and it hasn't been cleaned yet. My "go-to" AR has several thousand rounds since its last cleaning. Currently competing w/ a G34... I cleaned it this winter, and it was the first cleaning all yr (around 5k rounds).

If cleaning is something you enjoy, go for it. Otherwise, add a drop of lube to critical surfaces (bolt/barrel lugs, slide rails, etc) and go shoot.

How does cleaning add wear to a gun? I'll leave this from one of the premier pistol barrel makers...
http://www.schuemann.com/Portals/0/Documentation/Webfile_Barrel_Cleaning.pdf
Also, I can point to countless examples of springs getting bent (the slide release spring on a glock or the firing-pin 'cotter' pin on an AR are classic/easy examples), roll pins loosening, people scratching their guns (eg "idiot" marks on a 1911), barrel crowns getting dinged by the steel center portion of their brass brush, etc etc.

I'm probably the extreme person to talk to about this. I've actually become superstitious on the topic to the point I won't carry or compete with a perfectly clean gun. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a-typical malfunctions in a clean gun. I remember going to an Area USPSA match one year... my gun (Beretta 92G EliteII) had many thousands of rounds through it (malfunction free), so I decided to clean it for this big match. First stage I had like 5 malfunctions, and none after that. Why?? Who knows. Maybe I bent a spring or something. Maybe I had dislodged a chunk of carbon and it moved someplace I didn't see but that hindered proper function. Whatever. At least it was just a match score that was wrecked and not a self defense use.....

-rvb

 

[223 Gunner]

Interesting article rvb. Thanks for the link.

 

[1911ly]

Till some genious like you comes a lot and tells me the gosphle truth I can only repeat what 20 others told me was my issue. I bow at you feet great one. Thank's for being to gentle when informing me of my total complete stupidity

 

[churchmouse]

Good article. I seldom use anything but an oiled patch on the barrel bore.

 

[strokin7.3]

I've been preaching that for years, only to be met with being called a gun snob. There was a review put out by lucky gunner, that after about 6 thousand rounds of steel cased ammo a barrel is "shot out". I've been of the opinion that if you put out $800 or more for a rifle, don't shoot cheap ammo, steel cased ammo out of your AR can lead to problems.

6000 rounds fired very quickly out of a rifle. They abused the **** out of those barrels. If you put 6000 rounds through an AR over a much larger period of time I'm sure your barrel would be just fine. I must really be a sinner shooting steel cased ammo out of my Tavor since I paid well over your $800 cut off for firing steel case out of a rifle.

 

[223 Gunner]

6000 rounds fired very quickly out of a rifle. They abused the **** out of those barrels. If you put 6000 rounds through an AR over a much larger period of time I'm sure your barrel would be just fine. I must really be a sinner shooting steel cased ammo out of my Tavor since I paid well over your $800 cut off for firing steel case out of a rifle.

To each their own. I have a Tavor as well. It's only seen brass cased ammo. It's a personal choice, I know what the Tavor cost, I will not run steel out of mine.

 

[rvb]

It really should be more about the barrel cost (incl the cost to have the re-barreling work done if you can't do it yourself) in your decision to shoot the bi-metal stuff than the cost of the complete rifle. Of course, there are other factors, eg how hard the cases are on extractors, etc, that may weigh in on your decision. Whether the complete weapon is $600 or $2500, replacing a barrel will be relatively close in cost.....

-rvb

 

[223 Gunner]

It really should be more about the barrel cost (incl the cost to have the re-barreling work done if you can't do it yourself) in your decision to shoot the bi-metal stuff than the cost of the complete rifle. Of course, there are other factors, eg how hard the cases are on extractors, etc, that may weigh in on your decision. Whether the complete weapon is $600 or $2500, replacing a barrel will be relatively close in cost.....

-rvb

All true, and although I have not done it, I have read removing the barrel from the Tavor is not too hard. I have yet to clean mine, it has been on a handful of range trips, and probably has less than 400 rounds down range.
If he wants to shoot steel out of his $2000 dollar rifle, that's on him. Yes I know a barrel is much cheaper than the entire rifle.

 

[Beowulf]

All true, and although I have not done it, I have read removing the barrel from the Tavor is not too hard. I have yet to clean mine, it has been on a handful of range trips, and probably has less than 400 rounds down range.
If he wants to shoot steel out of his $2000 dollar rifle, that's on him. Yes I know a barrel is much cheaper than the entire rifle.

Yup. Really, I would just look at how difficult the barrel is to replace. Very different when dealing with an AR or a rifle like the Tavor, versus a Galil or an AK. The first two aren't too tough to replace and the latter require heavy equipment. Again, though, given how most people shoot, you probably won't get enough wear in the lifetime to hit that, unless you are a competition shooter or just love to blaze away.

 

[Jarhead77]

No worries gunner and no offense taken. I just wipe it down and run a bore snake through the barrel to get any crud out. I know they'll take a beating but no sense forcing the issue.

Ah yes! I do remember my M16A1, it rattled more than my .45 when I picked up E6!