Are We Going To Act? Where Do You Stand?

[Hammerhead]

Forgive me, as I must have missed this somewhere.

In WI, where OC is the law, do you restrict the carry of firearms in your restaurants because they have to be OC'd? Or are you saying that you HAVE to allow OC in WI because CC is unlawful, and thus in IN where OC or CC are legal, you'd much rather people CC because you can't make them CC in WI?

Flawed logic is flawed.

If you're stating that because OC is the law in WI, you'll allow it grudgingly. Now, however, your IN restaurants are in a place where you can say "nope, CC only because we really like that option, but since we can't in WI, we will in IN."

It seems to me that because you follow the law in WI (assuming that you allow carry in your establishments in WI), it would be just as easy to say "we'll follow the law in IN and allow for whatever carry the law allows for."

An another note, I used to live in Lafayette, and I return there as often as I can. When I do, I try to find new places to visit that have popped up since the last visit I made. Hearing of a new restaurant piqued my interest. I make it to Bloomington a bit more often than Lafayette, and the possibility of a location there would have made it easier to visit. I, at this time, however, will also be on the list of those not patronizing your restaurant until you re-evaluate your circular logic.

And hopefully to help clarify as to why there are so many of us who have decided against spending money there, think of it this way. Sure, you can "compromise" and say that you'll let us carry CC'd (although it seems quite a bit like backpedaling from your earlier position). The problem is, even though there are a lot of people here who CC for personal reasons, even they don't like being told that they don't have the choice. You asked why he (or that matter any of us who OC more often than not) would be willing to cover if asked (maybe), but not to CC in the first place, because that's the same choice. It's not a compromise, it's an insult.

 

[Rookie]

In Wisconsin, OC is illegal because they serve alcohol...

 

[Hammerhead]

Ok. Not knowing the restaurant, I didn't know they served alcohol, and that was the reason for the victim disarmament zone.

So again, because it's not legally allowed in one state, means it's not acceptable in another where it is legally allowed? I ran into this problem with Flower Factory (search through the threads I've started for more info on that) and even they acknowledged that it didn't make sense to bar carry in one location because of the laws of another.

Sorry, my local Chinese buffet with Mongolian BBQ serves alcohol and doesn't say squat when I carry openly. They know my family as regular customers. I think it'll stay that way. To bad, too. From the website, it looks like something I'd enjoy. Especially with the "warrior" theme they have going.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

All,
Tim - I do hang on to the fact that out of the multiple reasons that you stated that you would like to open carry, I chose the "political statement" reason. One reason why is that you have not only stated that you enjoyed our product, but that you also did not have a problem concealing your weapon when asked. Additionally, you have stated that you are going to go out of your way to let others know about our policy. By definition, that is politicking.

Sincerely,
David Lindenstruth

I'm a bit short on time at this moment, I will answer the rest of your post a little later. Yes I did say I didn't have a problem with covering if asked. It is your business and you have the right to make up whatever rules you want. But I do have a problem with being asked to cover up, and if asked to do so will not patronize that place again, unless there is a change in policy.

 

[Roadie]

Looking at their locations, they are in quite a few Open Carry states. I am wondering how the patrons in those states will feel about the current "policy"?

 

[Mr. Habib]

I was looking forward to trying this place until this. It seems that the management can't even tell the same lie twice. First the mgr called the police, then his boss called, then it was a customer, then maybe it was an employee. After that we were told that it really didn't matter. Now the policy seems to change constantly. First open carry is good, now it's not. How about basing our policy on the laws of Wisconsin. No that won't work either, they allow open carry and we wouldn't want that because the police might come and arrest for mowing our yard with a gun. Then they try to guilt trip us to eat there or the tax base of Lafayette will dry up.Oh well, the last Mongolian restaurant in Bloomington failed, if this mess is any indication of how this place will be run, it won't last long either.

 

[Roadie]

I was looking forward to trying this place until this. It seems that the management can't even tell the same lie twice. First the mgr called the police, then his boss called, then it was a customer, then maybe it was an employee. After that we were told that it really didn't matter. Now the policy seems to change constantly. First open carry is good, now it's not. How about basing our policy on the laws of Wisconsin. No that won't work either, they allow open carry and we wouldn't want that because the police might come and arrest for mowing our yard with a gun. Then they try to guilt trip us to eat there or the tax base of Lafayette will dry up.Oh well, the last Mongolian restaurant in Bloomington failed, if this mess is any indication of how this place will be run, it won't last long either.

Go to their website and check out how many of their States are Open Carry states. Posting on those State's gun websites about HuHots policies could be VERY interesting..

 

[Dirtebiker]

I was looking forward to trying this place until this. It seems that the management can't even tell the same lie twice.

[HTML]

[/HTML]First the mgr called the police, then his boss called, then it was a customer, then maybe it was an employee. After that we were told that it really didn't matter. Now the policy seems to change constantly. First open carry is good, now it's not. How about basing our policy on the laws of Wisconsin. No that won't work either, they allow open carry and we wouldn't want that because the police might come and arrest for mowing our yard with a gun. Then they try to guilt trip us to eat there or the tax base of Lafayette will dry up.Oh well, the last Mongolian restaurant in Bloomington failed, if this mess is any indication of how this place will be run, it won't last long either.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ that about sums it up^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. I too, was willing to stop in on my next trip up that way! Now... Absolutely NOT!!!!! Not only do they want to make our decision in the way we carry for us, they seem unable to get or keep there story straight!
Dave, it's real simple; don't post any signs,don't discriminate against law abiding citizens, handle complaints one at a time, as any good manager should,

example; customer..." sir this soup is cold!" , manager..." I am so sorry, let me take it and get you a new hot order, and by the way I'll be giving you a
nice discount for bringing it to my attention and for the inconvenience.".
example#2... ( what should have happened after the police left) ... Manager..." I'm so sorry sir, by calling the police, we caused a big scene, allowed your food to get cold while you had to deal with them, and made ourselves look foolish! Please accept my apology, let me get you some fresh, hot food, and by the way, your families meal is on me tonight, and here is a gift certificate for your next meal! Thank you for helping to educate us all!


example #3...customer..." sir, see that family over there? That man has a gun and it scares me!... Manager..." yes, I see him, he and his family come in all the time, he's one of my most loyal customers! We had a problem one time, with a situation like this, the police were called, and long story short... We were educated by the police and a lot of friendly gun owners that it is perfectly legal to carry a handgun openly in the state of Indiana if you have a license!

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Go to their website and check out how many of their States are Open Carry states. Posting on those State's gun websites about HuHots policies could be VERY interesting..

I'm pretty sure this decision only applies to the IN location, I believe that Dave is the owner of the franchise for the WI and IN restaurants.

So I wouldn't say that it is the policy of all the restaurants in OC states.

 

[Destro]

In short, Sir, you are assured to be safer in the company of an individual properly licensed and trained in pistolcraft, regardless of whether he or she is wearing a uniform or badge, than you are in the presence of an ordinary citizen. We have proven our mental and physical fitness as rational, upstanding persons, and we have licensure to prove this.

I think i just threw up a little in my mouth...

sounds like us CC will be missing out on a good time...too bad what ever day it happens to be, im SURE i'll be...umm...way to busy

 

[Wabatuckian]

Destro,

Do you not have a LTCH? If so, haven't you sought training? If not, how do you know what you will default to if you get into a confrontation?

I also think you missed several posts on this thread... Interesting how that happens.

Josh

 

[Hotdoger]

Must be Wisconsin Logic

As someone who has had a lot of interactions with citizens of the badger state, they do have their own type of logic.

 

[Hotdoger]

All,

I would like to point a few things.

My point regarding Wisconsin statute is that it does not generally allow firearms in places that serve alcohol. You yourself have validated this as it only allows for firearms to be carried during an "event of limited duration." I believe that your point is being overstated if you are implying that this allows us to accept patrons with firearms, as the intent of this is likely to allow bowling alleys or other businesses to have gun shows or other 1 or 2 day events. The point of this discussion is not to argue the technicalities and loopholes in laws.

The statement that "gun owners are not welcome there" is entirely false. We have serviced over 1 million guests amongst the restaurants that we own/operate and I'm certain that many (if not the majority) of them are gun owners.

I also believe that the references to "corporate" and "corporate response" are overstated. We are a small business that opened its first restaurant just over five years ago.

Last night, I validated with all managers involved with the situation that they did not contact the police and each of their stories aligns. I sincerely believe that it was not one of them. This is not to say that some other employee (who did not notify management) did not call the police. Regardless, someone felt unsafe in the presence of another who had a gun. Thus, this proves that there is another set of people who are unafraid of firearms and may not patronize our business if we allow open carry. Many of the points on this board and by Tim reference the fact that we will lose business over this decision. My point, is that we stand to lose business on both sides if we do not reach a compromise.

Regarding us losing business over this decision, I would like for you to consider the following. You may consider the person who is afraid of an inanimate object, particularly to the extent that they would call the police or stop visiting a place of business that allows for open carry, to be irrational. However, by that same argument, what does that make the person who is not willing to patronize a business because they do not allow someone to openly carry an inanimate object openly? To me, right or wrong, the viewpoints are on opposite ends of the spectrum. I understand that you would like to educate other patrons and citizens on the right to carry, however, I think your biggest challenge is not in swaying those who sit on the fence - that is low hanging fruit. Your biggest challenge is swaying those who are on the opposite extreme. If you partake in the same irrational behavior as those people, I can guarantee you that you will only inflame the situation with them.

Tim - I do hang on to the fact that out of the multiple reasons that you stated that you would like to open carry, I chose the "political statement" reason. One reason why is that you have not only stated that you enjoyed our product, but that you also did not have a problem concealing your weapon when asked. Additionally, you have stated that you are going to go out of your way to let others know about our policy. By definition, that is politicking.

We could have chosen many states and cities to locate a restaurant in, but we decided Lafayette, Indiana. Our restaurant will contribute approximately $800k of compensation each year to local employees. This location will also be responsible for direct donations of $30k per year to local non-profit organizations through our Making Community Impacts program (Making Community Impacts). Furthermore, we have won many significant awards based on our community involvement. The chances that this space in Lafayette would be occupied with another organization of this caliber is unlikely. However, some of you are chosing to overlook these facts, not because we do not allow firearms inside, but because we simply ask that you cover them up in some manner. Not only do you not want to patronize our business, you are suggesting that you will indirectly ask others not to patronize our business. I fail to understand how such behaviors better your cause - particularly in such a tumultous economic time where small businesses such as ourselves are reviving the economy.

Sincerely,
David Lindenstruth

If these is such " tumultous economic time" why alienate legal OCers from patronizing your resturants ? Is the goal for less sales so there will be less payroll and donations to local nonprofits?

As a Boone County residents, our family drives to Lafayette to eat out to avoid the "Lucas stadium" tax. Your resturant went from the "must go to many times list" to the "never go to list".

BDs in Indy was on the if in Indy "go list".

Thanks for your well thought out logical alienation of MYSELF and my family members.


BTW I tell others when I am not wanted too!

 

[cbop]

While I do not agree with the compromise put forth, I do not understand why we, as gun owners, want to put the onus of education on the business owner, manager or staff. We want to educate the public on the legality of open carry but from these incidents, it seems obvious that those who object to seeing a gun do not always approach the one carrying the gun and instead mention it to the staff. That puts the explanation of the law into the hands of those whose job is to serve their customer rather than educate them.

I do not understand why some gun rights organization, whether it be NRA, Indiana Rifle Association or even INGO itself does not take it upon themselves to dispel the misinformation, legality and myths. Print up a nice, glossy, 3 fold brochure explaining the legality and point out the rights and advantages of an armed public. Point out that the ones people need to worry about are not the ones having dinner with their families and openly displaying their sidearm. Put all the points we are trying to make in a professional little display. Take a stack of these and a nice little plastic holder like the credit card apps and such sit in and ask each business owner to place it by the register or whatever. We get the word out and the business owner can easily give the concerned patron a brochure that simply explains that they are complying with the laws in Indiana and that it is not their policy but rather the Constitution of the State of Indiana and the Constitution of the United States. I would tend to believe that more people would be educated if something like this was available to be read at the table than waiting for someone to come up to a gun owner, asking questions. I know I have read frivolous things on place mats just to pass the time while waiting to be served. Why do we want something as important as our rights to be explained by someone who is as likely in the dark about the laws as most of the public. If we are hoping that we will win people to our cause based on the word of a waiter or cashier, no wonder we are in the spot we are. Get our points of view out there and take the pressure off the business owner.

I might also mention, if you were to take these packets around to the various businesses and ask them to just place them somewhere where they are available to their patrons, you would be much more aware of which business is truly anti-gun as opposed to those who are just trying to alienate as few potential customers as possible. Just think, what better advertisement for this site and responsible gun owners could there be than thousand of tables with this brochure with the INGO logo on them, presenting logical, coherrant and cognizant information? That would be a project worth sponsoring!

 

[protias]

Because owners of businesses and their staff are also part of the general public. A business will almost certainly interact with more people in a day than any one of us.

 

[Hotdoger]

Because owners of businesses and their staff are also part of the general public. A business will almost certainly interact with more people in a day than any one of us.

Most business owners are not the point of contact in their companies.