It is my understanding that an off duty police officer ran out of ammunition during an active killer incident a few years ago in Salt Lake City. The story is that he was celebrating Valentines Day with his wife at a mall in down town Salt Lake. The shooter was armed with a pump action shot gun and started shooting on a lower level of the mall than the off duty officer. The officer engaged the shooter from a higher position, did not hit him, but did contain him until on duty officers arrived and finished the fight. The off duty guy was reportedly armed with a 1911 with one magazine and had expended all of his ammunition.
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Armed citizens running out of ammo in real life?
- Thread starter mcjon77
- Start date
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The knock out game.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=riNKY2BA38qW5xk74OM4Tw&bvm=bv.95039771,d.b2w
Remember this one?
Why one cop now carries 145 rounds.
https://www.google.com/url?q=http:/...ds-cse&usg=AFQjCNEeKNwqTO3tIT02NvCvq5YSov0YUw
I realize this is a police officer, but who is to say that it could not happen to you. I realize you will not be running to the fight but what if the fight comes to you?
There have also been threads of multiple home invaders.
As mentioned in the thread, there are good reasons to carry a reload apart from capacity. That said. . .
Per the incidents in which Tom Given's students have been involved, I think the average is 3-ish rounds (going from memory here, could be off a little).
However, there are several cases amongst those students where they went to slide lock (say, 12-ish rounds). Not uncommon by any means.
Something else to factor in is that there's likely to be more than one attacker maybe 50% of the time.
John Farnam's analysis of SOP-9 comes to the conclusion that 8 rnds is about average [1]. (Yes, I know, not directly applicable).
There are lots of such anecdotes and data points that could be cited.
Keep in mind, data from dead people (like, say, people who ran out of boolits first) is harder to come by unless it was caught on video, another good guy was there, etc. So, I would expect examples of people who "lost" because they ran out of ammo first to be fairly rare relative to it's actual occurrence.
From all my tracking with this through the decades, 8 rounds plus a reload isn't a bad rule of thumb imho. However, I also think the variability is pretty high. If something comes up, you're going to have to deal with it regardless of what you are or are not carrying at the time.
[1] - John Farnam - Enough Ammunition
Per the incidents in which Tom Given's students have been involved, I think the average is 3-ish rounds (going from memory here, could be off a little).
However, there are several cases amongst those students where they went to slide lock (say, 12-ish rounds). Not uncommon by any means.
Something else to factor in is that there's likely to be more than one attacker maybe 50% of the time.
John Farnam's analysis of SOP-9 comes to the conclusion that 8 rnds is about average [1]. (Yes, I know, not directly applicable).
There are lots of such anecdotes and data points that could be cited.
Keep in mind, data from dead people (like, say, people who ran out of boolits first) is harder to come by unless it was caught on video, another good guy was there, etc. So, I would expect examples of people who "lost" because they ran out of ammo first to be fairly rare relative to it's actual occurrence.
From all my tracking with this through the decades, 8 rounds plus a reload isn't a bad rule of thumb imho. However, I also think the variability is pretty high. If something comes up, you're going to have to deal with it regardless of what you are or are not carrying at the time.
[1] - John Farnam - Enough Ammunition
BehindBlueI's
Grandmaster
- Oct 3, 2012
- 25,928
- 113
I've been involved in the investigation of hundreds of shootings and I've yet to see it. I've seen people lose with guns still in the holster, guns they were reaching for, guns that malfunctioned, guns they didn't get the safety off, and guns that worked just fine but they caught a bullet themselves before they emptied it. I've yet to see someone lose with an empty gun in their hand that wasn't empty before they started. (Robbers don't always have access to ammo...)
I have seen one recent case where the bad guy's gun caught a bullet at the bottom of the grip, knocking the magazine's floor plate off and dumping his rounds. A spare mag would have been useful, but probably wouldn't have mattered to him as he kept getting hammered and was pulling his own trigger not realizing why it wasn't working.
The vast, vast majority of gun fights are resolved one way or the other before any party has time to empty the mag.
That said, its cheap insurance to carry a spare magazine. What's the down side?
Dosproduction
Master
I heard of a story of a women with children who ran to her crawlspace or something when a man broke into her home. She unloaded a revolver in him and the guy still managed to drive off. It was back around the time of the last high capacity magazine scare. If there had been a second guy she could have lost
other dave
Shooter
You wouldn't leave your spare tire at home would you?
Once, I left the trailer's spare at home. What are the chances I would need it?
I needed it. Doh.
- Jan 12, 2012
- 27,286
- 113
Somebody should have shot that stupid SOB before he had a chance to make up that stupid law!
A guy tried, but he ran out of ammo....
- Jan 12, 2012
- 27,286
- 113
Has anyone seen this?
Dramatic video captures home invasion near Grant Park | www.ajc.com
Makes me glad I have a couple of MagLink'd mags sitting in my AR . . .
Dramatic video captures home invasion near Grant Park | www.ajc.com
Makes me glad I have a couple of MagLink'd mags sitting in my AR . . .
It's not always about ammo capacity. The above patch was "earned" at a carbine class, but the logic still applies to EDC. Without the magazine your weapon won't function and there are numerous ways that the magazine can separate from your weapon and end up on the deck. This leaves you with at best a single shot weapon unless you have a spare magazine within hands reach.
BTW you can google "Pat Rogers moosecock" for an explanation of the patch (NSFW).
My guess is this isn't how they meant that. They didn't take the average but instead looked that the percentage that fell under 5-6 shots. If 90% of gun-fights finish in 3 shots and 5% in 6 shots and 5% take more than 6 than they can still say "Most are ended in less than 6 shots." They didn't say the average fight was 6 shots.
Just my engineer thought for the day.
Has anyone seen this?
Dramatic video captures home invasion near Grant Park | www.ajc.com
Makes me glad I have a couple of MagLink'd mags sitting in my AR . . .
Wow! I've got only 2 things to say. 1) I'm glad I don't live in Atlanta. 2) Time to get the AR out of the safe.
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