Armed Robbery at Store

[Bob2]

This happened in my hometown. Being fairly new to carrying, I find myself wondering just what the heck I would do getting caught in the middle of this type of situation. And I know that is impossible to know until it happens, and how it happens...

And while I so far have only CC'd, but have thought about OC or at least sloppy CC a few times, I thought to myself while reading this I wonder how this goes down if the BG's take notice to a customer OC'ing.

So, do you go along and do nothing as long as you aren't being directly threatened with your life? Seems this ended without injury, but what if an armed victim would have taken a stance? I pretty sure I will take some heat on some of this, and trust me, I am 100% pro gun / kill the bad guy if your life is in danger, and have not a care in the world how others choose to carry, but lots of what-ifs....

UPDATE: Police investigating Goshen armed robbery
Police are investigating after an armed robbery at a Goshen sporting goods store.
It happened around 8:15 p.m. Saturday night at the MC Sporting Goods store on Elkhart Road in the Market Centre Shopping Center.
Police say three black male suspects, wearing masks, entered the store and ordered everyone to the ground.
The suspects reportedly bound eleven people, including two store patrons, with cable ties while they robbed MC Sports.
The suspects reportedly left in a Dodge Neon before the officers arrived at the store.
Police say they believe the vehicle the suspects used to leave the scene of the armed robbery was found at the Maple Place Court apartment complex.
Residents of the Maple Place Court apartments were kept out of their apartments, about a mile and a half from MC Sporting Goods, for several hours as a police investigation went on there.
"I actually parked beside the sheriff and I asked him if we could go through and he said no it would take about an hour or two, so that's when we just left and we came back at 11:30 p.m. and nothing," said Alejandra Torres. "And we're still waiting and they haven't told us anything about what's happening."
MC Sporting Goods was open at the time of the robbery. No one was hurt.
Anyone with information is asked to call the Goshen Police Department at police@goshencity.com or (574) 533-8661. Anonymous tips can also be given to Crime Stoppers at (800) 342-STOP.

 

[SteveM4A1]

Lots of things COULD happen. I think there are rare cases where an openly carried firearm could force your hand or cause you imninent danger. But I believe the pros outweigh this.

 

[ghuns]

I am NOT being bound. With 3 armed BGs, it may not go well. The odds of getting all 3 without any good guys getting hurt aren't great, but I don't like the odds of a positive outcome after being bound by 3 violent felons. Luckily for the 11 people in the store, it ended as well as it could.

 

[sloughfoot]

Anybody OC'ing will be rendered ineffective by the bad guys. They are not stupd or suicidal. I know lots of you guys on this forum think that you are smarter or quicker or that right is on your side. But the BG's have been training and practicing their craft far longer than you have. They also have the momentum of the action. You have very low odds of surviving if you don't go along, up to the "do not cross line". After that line is crossed,you might as well do what you can do.

Good guys are thrown to the ground, Their own gun is pressed to their chest, and their heart is turned to mush by their own pistol. Lots of times.

Oh crap, I sure hope I don't sound like a weiner.....

Did you know that a person killed by gunshot is squishy? Your goal is not to become squishy. JMO

 

[David D]

There is no doubt that in this situation I would much prefer to have been cc instead of oc. With that being stated, I would be awfully reluctant to do nothing and allow myself to be bound.

My greatest hope is to never need the weapons I carry. Thankfully no one was hurt this time.

 

[SteveM4A1]

SA would obviously help in a situation like this...dont let them get the jump on you.

 

[Trigger Time]

Anybody OC'ing will be rendered ineffective by the bad guys. They are not stupd or suicidal. I know lots of you guys on this forum think that you are smarter or quicker or that right is on your side. But the BG's have been training and practicing their craft far longer than you have. They also have the momentum of the action. You have very low odds of surviving if you don't go along, up to the "do not cross line". After that line is crossed,you might as well do what you can do.

Good guys are thrown to the ground, Their own gun is pressed to their chest, and their heart is turned to mush by their own pistol. Lots of times.

Oh crap, I sure hope I don't sound like a weiner.....

Did you know that a person killed by gunshot is squishy? Your goal is not to become squishy. JMO

do you carry a jar of KY with you everywhere you go to make it easier on you?
i think id choose to fight. Everyday I wake up is a bonus anyways.

 

[Rocket]

There is no right answer to your query. Because everyone could respond differently. I almost always CC so as not to be a target, like a security guard. But on two occasions I went with my instinct and OC'd and I am posative one time it stopped a felonious act. Do not know about the other.

The only answer that comes close, is to train,train, and train some more. And the only other thing is to decide your "line in the sand" now! When you do not need it. Waffling could get you killed. JMHO

 

[churchmouse]

Before you make any plans on how to respond you first have to be involved. No response to such a situation can be planed.

I do know that I will not allow myself to be tied up or restrained in any way if at all possible. If I am alone my actions will be dictated by how the scenario unfolds. If I am with another like minded person, well, 2 against 3 aint all that bad when it comes to odds. If you have any training and it kicks in you stand a chance. If you are just carrying as a talisman you need to hide the gun and run.

 

[hookedonjeep]

Wow... Tough call. Let three armed felons bind you and pray for the best, or step the aggression level up to throw them off guard... I would probably have to go with draw and take the first one out, ready for a quick follow up on the second guy. Most criminals are gambling that they will be met with little or no resistance, and rely on fear and shock as their primary tools for compliance. That being said, when met with a level of aggression higher than their own, most will scatter - as they haven't practiced for that scenario ( no desire to die for the little bit of money / things that they will acquire through their criminal enterprise ).... As for why the jump straight to guns - you carry your weapon to defend yourself and others from those that would do you harm. When you surrender, and allow yourself to be bound, you are now worthless in any attempt to resist as you are fighting from behind the curve. Your initial decision to take action would be your best choice, as if you are bound, you cannot have good access to your weapon - and there is nothing stopping them from searching you; taking your weapon and using it against an innocent or yourself. You take the time to carry, you know that the choice must be made, and they made the choice easy for you when they came in waving guns around ( imminent threat to you and innocent third parties ). If you decide to surrender, and things go south; do you really want your last thought to be the regret that you SHOULD have at least TRIED to stop them? IMHO, I would choose action over inaction.

 

[USMC-Johnson]

Situation dependent...

With that said violence of action plays a huge part...i'm sure many of you have fired a weapon with no hearing protection...now how many of you have done that in doors? totally different. Especially with multiple shots they will not be able to hear...That gives you an advantage...It says armed but it doesnt say with what...all three have guns? all three have knives? one with a baseball bat? simply not enough information.

Situation depends but i can tell you 99% of situations wouldnt go with me being forced to the ground and bound with anything.

 

[Dead Duck]

Once you decide to let yourself get tied up, you've just committed suicide.
These people were lucky. Doesn't matter if the BGs had guns or were armed with hotdogs. By hitting them fast and hard should diminishes their will to fight.
There is only one choice and it does NOT end with giving ones life to the mercy of dirtbags and hoping for the best.

Sounds like Goshen has at least a dozen worthless sheeple after this. I hope they feel totally humiliated, as they should.

Anybody OC'ing will be rendered ineffective by the bad guys. They are not stupd or suicidal. I know lots of you guys on this forum think that you are smarter or quicker or that right is on your side. But the BG's have been training and practicing their craft far longer than you have. They also have the momentum of the action. You have very low odds of surviving if you don't go along, up to the "do not cross line". After that line is crossed,you might as well do what you can do.

Good guys are thrown to the ground, Their own gun is pressed to their chest, and their heart is turned to mush by their own pistol. Lots of times.

Oh crap, I sure hope I don't sound like a weiner.....

Did you know that a person killed by gunshot is squishy? Your goal is not to become squishy. JMO

I do have to agree with Sloughfoot that he sounds like a weiner.
Never have I heard someone so willing to give up the fight before actually engaging in it.

 

[Stschil]

Not having been there, there is no way I can say how I would react however, I somehow doubt that in a retail store the size of an MC Sports that all eleven people were convieniently gathered up in one small easily controlled location when the three BGs entered and began their felonious act. My instinct tells me that they had to spread out and corral them one or two at a time, which is going to be a chaotic couple of minutes for all involved, especially for the BGs who at that moment believe they are 'in control'.
The CC/OCer who practices good situational awareness and has trained has a very good chance of screwing this up for the BGs who mostly likely have not trained, have no back up plan, no communications, etc. Being what it is, the sales floor offers multiple places for concealment from which one can observe, notify LE, and possibly plan an attack. A quick assault during the chaos on one of the BGs is likely to leave the other two scared, confused, and wondering how fast they can exit.

 

[halfmileharry]

SHTF can happen so fast you'll never see it coming. I've been there and been robbed. I never had time to even exhale. Depending on luck doesn't work but sometimes it's all you have to work with.
Try as I might even now, I know it can still happen. I try to be ready, prepare to move fast, and train my mind to work even faster.
Each and every situation will be different. I tell myself I won't be tied but if it ever happens again I'll have to wing it as I go.
I know that much.
I consider myself pretty good at defending myself, I'm a very good shot, I practice religiously, and keep my S.A. sharp as I can.
I don't like depending on luck so my preparation and luck will have to work hand in hand and HOPE I'm smart enough to walk away leaving a positive outcome.

 

[lovemachine]

3 armed BGs, charging in, and bounding all the customers?

Kinda makes you question what you carry for EDC, doesn't it? How well does carrying that pocket gun or revolver sound now?

 

[OWGEM]

What halfmileharry said. Been there done that. Robbed at gun point and forced into a back room. Happens faster than you think possible. No way to tell what you can or will do. Internet bravado won't save your ass. Pray you are not near the door one second and have three guns pointed at you the next.

 

[Expat]

I wouldn't be able to be bound. I remember the Osco murders too well. They bound everyone and then killed them in the back room.

 

[ghuns]

3 armed BGs, charging in, and bounding all the customers?

Kinda makes you question what you carry for EDC, doesn't it? How well does carrying that pocket gun or revolver sound now?

Made me think. I have always carried a compact 1911 and one or two full size mags. Ain't sayin I'm jumping ship, just thinking that the more bullets is better way of thinking is starting to sound more convincing.

I remember the Osco murders too well.

Me too.

 

[Arthur Dent]

I am NOT being bound. With 3 armed BGs, it may not go well. The odds of getting all 3 without any good guys getting hurt aren't great, but I don't like the odds of a positive outcome after being bound by 3 violent felons. Luckily for the 11 people in the store, it ended as well as it could.

Multiple bad guys are expecting no resistance. Remember the retiree in Florida who ran off two armed robbers by shooting at them? They were falling over each other trying to get out and get away.

 

[OWGEM]

Multiple bad guys are expecting no resistance. Remember the retiree in Florida who ran off two armed robbers by shooting at them? They were falling over each other trying to get out and get away.

As I recall those were teenagers who had an old gun that was not loaded. The gun pulled on me was loaded, I could see the lead in the cylinder. He was a pro as evidenced by his actions, ie holding my right hand as he led me back, patting down everyone's pockets, etc. Don't count on your BG being a beginner.