ATF just announced they consider FRT to be Machine Guns

[TrueSeanamus]

You forgot apparently tend to cause a lot of jams.

We’ve all heard of limp wristing, now get ready for the newest sensation in gun fire, Limp shouldering!

 

[nipprdog]

When the aft started this crap a few months ago, weren't they referring to a specific company?

 

[AndreusMaximus]

Thought I'd drop this here, for everyone's education and entertainment:

 

[CTBay]

When you define something, especially something that restricts something somebody else wants bad enough, we shouldn’t be surprised when they design a way to get (at close to) what they want while complying with your definition.

And thats how its been until recently. Now they just decide to make it illegal without changing any law and apparently that flies.

Conspiracy laws. I guess its too difficult to prove someone committed a crime so they just made a bunch of new laws so that having talked about it is enough for a conviction with the same penalty as the law for having actually committed the crime.

Look alike drugs. They got tired of arresting people only to find the lab telling them the drugs they recovered is really drywall or makeup powder. So now “lookalike” drugs carry the same penalty. They can literally arrest someone for drywall bagged to look like drugs.

Civil asset forfeiture. They just take your cash or your stuff. They don’t need to convict you of a crime to keep it. They took and distributed something like $80,000 from two different people in Bedford recently. Both court proceedings to direct that money to the police and the county were separate from the criminal proceedings and were completed before the defendant even had a pre-trial in the criminal cause. They were not even afforded due process.

They don’t need the law on their side. They don’t need evidence. They don’t need to prove anything. If the rules don’t fit their goal, they change the rules.

The “definition” used to matter. Now they just redefine on the fly.

 

[Cameramonkey]

And thats how its been until recently. Now they just decide to make it illegal without changing any law and apparently that flies.

Conspiracy laws. I guess its too difficult to prove someone committed a crime so they just made a bunch of new laws so that having talked about it is enough for a conviction with the same penalty as the law for having actually committed the crime.

Look alike drugs. They got tired of arresting people only to find the lab telling them the drugs they recovered is really drywall or makeup powder. So now “lookalike” drugs carry the same penalty. They can literally arrest someone for drywall bagged to look like drugs.

Civil asset forfeiture. They just take your cash or your stuff. They don’t need to convict you of a crime to keep it. They took and distributed something like $80,000 from two different people in Bedford recently. Both court proceedings to direct that money to the police and the county were separate from the criminal proceedings and were completed before the defendant even had a pre-trial in the criminal cause. They were not even afforded due process.

They don’t need the law on their side. They don’t need evidence. They don’t need to prove anything. If the rules don’t fit their goal, they change the rules.

The “definition” used to matter. Now they just redefine on the fly.

And since its just a relative handful of whackjobs nobody cares. The average citizen subject doesnt understand or care.

Whats that Niemoller quote again?

 

[Hkindiana]

I know someone that the ATF tried charging with “conspiracy to conspire” - in other words they tried charging him for THINKING about breaking the law

 

[Caleb]

Remember when Trump's ATF did this with bump stocks and the INGO said, well no one needed those anyway.

I don't think they should have been banned, but I wouldn't buy one either

 

[Caleb]

 

[jbombelli]

I've just announced that I consider the ATF a bunch of anti-American a-holes.

 

[KLB]

I've just announced that I consider the ATF a bunch of anti-American a-holes.

"Just"?

 

[dieselrealtor]

Does owning a home with copper plumbing, while in possession of yeast, corn, sugar & water constitute a distillery?

 

[DragonGunner]

Does owning a home with copper plumbing, while in possession of yeast, corn, sugar & water constitute a distillery?

Most likely if you get in their sights. Careful how you bite a pop tart also....could be a machine gun to these boneheads.

 

[BigRed]

They are just range toys. They decrease your accuracy and just turn money into noise.

They still aren’t machine guns and banning them is an infringement on our rights.

ALL of atf is an infringement on natural rights...and nothing more.

 

[TrueSeanamus]

Does owning a home with copper plumbing, while in possession of yeast, corn, sugar & water constitute a distillery?

Please don’t give them ideas. I don’t need more taxes.

 

[TrueSeanamus]

ALL of atf is an infringement on natural rights...and nothing more.

I completely agree. I should be able to go to the store (or mail order) whatever the heck I want. A 12 year old could mail order a machine gun to his front door in 1933. The same kid could at least mail order a semi auto or bolt action up until 1968. Our rights as Americans and humans in general are being rather quickly stripped away. We may get a bone thrown to us here and there(constitutional carry becoming popular), but we are significantly less free than our fathers/grandfathers/great grandfathers (depending on age here) were.

And unfortunately I don’t really see true freedom returning in my life, if ever. Too many goobers are more than happy to trade in precious hard earned freedom for a fleeting moment of imagined security or convenience.

Even if we (people with the flame of liberty burning in our souls) could somehow break away and form our own country, we would have to build everything ourselves as most countries have internal laws preventing exporting most guns and weapons. Though funnily enough China and Russia would likely be friendly enough to supply us with the goods.

 

[mikek]

I completely agree. I should be able to go to the store (or mail order) whatever the heck I want. A 12 year old could mail order a machine gun to his front door in 1933. The same kid could at least mail order a semi auto or bolt action up until 1968. Our rights as Americans and humans in general are being rather quickly stripped away. We may get a bone thrown to us here and there(constitutional carry becoming popular), but we are significantly less free than our fathers/grandfathers/great grandfathers (depending on age here) were.

And unfortunately I don’t really see true freedom returning in my life, if ever. Too many goobers are more than happy to trade in precious hard earned freedom for a fleeting moment of imagined security or convenience.

Even if we (people with the flame of liberty burning in our souls) could somehow break away and form our own country, we would have to build everything ourselves as most countries have internal laws preventing exporting most guns and weapons. Though funnily enough China and Russia would likely be friendly enough to supply us with the goods.

Well said

 

[Hop]

Don't go order one from their website either. iirc, the ATF seized it along with all inventory. The website and ordering product is probably a sting operation. I still get the emails and like to view the site. Nothing there mentions the ATF last time I looked.

I have seen them at a few small gun shows & they are jacked way up in price right now.

Can't wait for ATF to get smacked down in court about all these infringements.

 

[JettaKnight]

I wasn’t familiar with them either until this all blew up…then I wanted one.

Bad publicity is good publicity, amirite.

From an engineering standpoint, and politics aside, it just seems like a s****y engineered machine gun.

I kinda want one now, too.

 

[JettaKnight]

I completely agree. I should be able to go to the store (or mail order) whatever the heck I want. A 12 year old could mail order a machine gun to his front door in 1933. The same kid could at least mail order a semi auto or bolt action up until 1968. Our rights as Americans and humans in general are being rather quickly stripped away. We may get a bone thrown to us here and there(constitutional carry becoming popular), but we are significantly less free than our fathers/grandfathers/great grandfathers (depending on age here) were.

the catch is that people really couldn't afford that luxury then.

When I was a kid, I remember my dad dreaming for years about getting an AR15, now days who doesn't have one? There's an unfired one in vault now.

And unfortunately I don’t really see true freedom returning in my life, if ever. Too many goobers are more than happy to trade in precious hard earned freedom for a fleeting moment of imagined security or convenience.

Freedom isn't dead - we just got constitutional carry here in Indiana. You might call that "a bone", but I say it's a big win especially when compared against what it took to carry in the 80s.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Bad publicity is good publicity, amirite.

From an engineering standpoint, and politics aside, it just seems like a s****y engineered machine gun.

I kinda want one now, too.

Meh. A Gat Crank was more practical. At least with that I could support the forend and keep it on target better.