-
Be sure to read this post! Beware of scammers. https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/classifieds-new-online-payment-guidelines-rules-paypal-venmo-zelle-etc.511734/
Biden to BAN Lead Ammo for Hunters
- Thread starter DadSmith
- Start date
The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana
Member Benefits:
Fewer Ads! Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership Discuss anti-gun legislation Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses Discover free outdoor shooting areas View up to date on firearm-related events Share photos & video with other members ...and so much more!
Member Benefits:
recycling ideas AGAIN.
Agreed this is a dumb idea. 
But I’d like to explore it a bit from the non political side.
Brandon’s antics aside….Strategically speaking, would it make sense as a whole for military ammo to be all copper? Saying this because I know that the US doesn’t have domestic lead production anymore. Remember and article a few years ago about it. For that matter I’m not sure if we have domestic copper production but if we did it would make sense from a wartime constraints viewpoint. What y’all think?
Aside from all that. I know I’ve heard a few shotgunners complain about not being able to run lead. I guess the loss in mass is noticeable on target when the shot size is small.
But I’d like to explore it a bit from the non political side.
Brandon’s antics aside….Strategically speaking, would it make sense as a whole for military ammo to be all copper? Saying this because I know that the US doesn’t have domestic lead production anymore. Remember and article a few years ago about it. For that matter I’m not sure if we have domestic copper production but if we did it would make sense from a wartime constraints viewpoint. What y’all think?
Aside from all that. I know I’ve heard a few shotgunners complain about not being able to run lead. I guess the loss in mass is noticeable on target when the shot size is small.
The current lead recycling rate in North America and Europe is nearly 100 percent.
We still have quite a few large lead mines in the USA, we just dont smelt it here any longer. And lead for ammunition only uses about 4% of the lead used in America.
We have plenty of lead.
We also have plenty of copper, the US is the second largest producer of copper in the world.
We still have quite a few large lead mines in the USA, we just dont smelt it here any longer. And lead for ammunition only uses about 4% of the lead used in America.
We have plenty of lead.
We also have plenty of copper, the US is the second largest producer of copper in the world.
The real reason(as opposed to the claimed one) that they are pushing for this for hunting ammo, is because copper ammo is more expensive and they want to increase the expense of buying ammo as a barrier to current hunters continuing to hunt and as a way of discouraging new hunters. On a military scale, solid copper bullets would increase costs significantly. Also, solid copper non hollow point bullets would be far less likely to deform then yaw/tumble in tissue, likely creating only much less effective, caliber diameter, straight line wounds.Agreed this is a dumb idea.
But I’d like to explore it a bit from the non political side.
Brandon’s antics aside….Strategically speaking, would it make sense as a whole for military ammo to be all copper? Saying this because I know that the US doesn’t have domestic lead production anymore. Remember and article a few years ago about it. For that matter I’m not sure if we have domestic copper production but if we did it would make sense from a wartime constraints viewpoint. What y’all think?
Aside from all that. I know I’ve heard a few shotgunners complain about not being able to run lead. I guess the loss in mass is noticeable on target when the shot size is small.
The problem with shot is that steel, which is the cheapest lead alternative, is not nearly as dense as lead. Combined with the small size and poor aerodynamics of shot, it loses energy quickly. To help counter this, hunters use much larger steel shot than they would lead for the same purposes but that is only partially effective. As unintended consequences, the increased shot size reduces the number of shot in a given load and the penetration capability of the shot. IMO, the "non-toxic" shot rules were based on rather questionable data and has likely contributed to more wounded and lost migratory game birds than it saved.
Last season, I tried Nosler lead free ballistic tip projectiles for coyotes. The reason I tried them was because they are longer than lead core projectiles which allowed me to get closer to the lands in my barrel which improved accuracy. I could get close to 1/4 inch moa shooting from a lead sled versus 5/8 moa with lead core. So, I loaded a bunch up and went hunting. I shot about 10 coyotes and the results were amazingly unimpressive. MASSIVE surface wounds with barely any penetration. Most required a follow up shot or a 22 to the head. I switched back to lead core and my DRT shots improved significantly.
He spilled his grape jelly on his fir, that's going to be tough to get out.
Those Nosler lead free ballistic tips are designed to fragment upon impact and have a really thin jacket with what looks a lot like a powder core. I'm sure they are fine for prairie dogs but clearly not suitable for anything coyote sized. Failure to penetrate is a nearly non-existent problem for solid copper bullets.
BehindBlueI's
Grandmaster
- Oct 3, 2012
- 25,916
- 113
Agreed this is a dumb idea.
But I’d like to explore it a bit from the non political side.
Brandon’s antics aside….Strategically speaking, would it make sense as a whole for military ammo to be all copper? Saying this because I know that the US doesn’t have domestic lead production anymore. Remember and article a few years ago about it. For that matter I’m not sure if we have domestic copper production but if we did it would make sense from a wartime constraints viewpoint. What y’all think?
Aside from all that. I know I’ve heard a few shotgunners complain about not being able to run lead. I guess the loss in mass is noticeable on target when the shot size is small.
In broad strokes, solid copper projectiles can and do work very well in meat. They are not good at armor penetration, though per military testing in the early 2010's. They tested existing penetrator ammo types as well as solid copper and solid brass. Copper and brass had to be driven much faster to get than existing steel penetrator or jacketed lead rounds to get through the same armor.
Onebad06vtx
Expert
FJB
