Bird/lime scooters downtown Indy.

[DoggyDaddy]

The idea is, if you fine them $1,000 then officers are more likely to let someone off.
Fine them a small amount, and they're likely to write it up.

I'm not following. It seems like it would be the other way around. Small fine? Eh, not worth my time to write the ticket. Big fine? I'm writing that ticket. (Just an example - I'm not a cop. )

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I'm not following. It seems like it would be the other way around. Small fine? Eh, not worth my time to write the ticket. Big fine? I'm writing that ticket. (Just an example - I'm not a cop. )

Despite the common "tickets are for revenue" complaints, we don't get anything extra in our checks for writing tickets. As the fines go up, more and more cops find that it violates their sense of justice in that it's not really on par with the offense. So, less tickets get written. Same reason I tended to give CDL holders more leeway. They get punished more for the same ticket. I don't even know what a speeding ticket fine is, now. I've only written warnings, one unsafe lane change to an oblivious woman in a U-haul who forced a guy into the shoulder, and two driving while suspendeds since getting back on the road.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Despite the common "tickets are for revenue" complaints, we don't get anything extra in our checks for writing tickets. As the fines go up, more and more cops find that it violates their sense of justice in that it's not really on par with the offense. So, less tickets get written. Same reason I tended to give CDL holders more leeway. They get punished more for the same ticket. I don't even know what a speeding ticket fine is, now. I've only written warnings, one unsafe lane change to an oblivious woman in a U-haul who forced a guy into the shoulder, and two driving while suspendeds since getting back on the road.

Oh no, I wasn't thinking along those lines (higher fine = something extra for the cop). I was thinking higher fine = more serious offense = more likely NOT to be "let off". I guess whether or not the offense merits the higher fine is debatable, but should the police be making that call, or is that up to the legislators? I understand giving you guys some leeway according to extenuating circumstances (warnings vs. tickets, etc.), but shouldn't the majority of that type of thing really be done "by the book" and then let the court decide the outcome?

I can see your point, and I think most on this site in particular would hope that if a law (ie. strict gun control laws for example) really were unjust that the police wouldn't support it. I guess I'm biased when it comes to the scooter thing. They just seem like a horrible idea and dangerous for pedestrians. Yeah, now they're supposed to stay off the sidewalks, but obviously they don't.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Oh no, I wasn't thinking along those lines (higher fine = something extra for the cop). I was thinking higher fine = more serious offense = more likely NOT to be "let off". I guess whether or not the offense merits the higher fine is debatable, but should the police be making that call, or is that up to the legislators? I understand giving you guys some leeway according to extenuating circumstances (warnings vs. tickets, etc.), but shouldn't the majority of that type of thing really be done "by the book" and then let the court decide the outcome?

It depends on how you view the Executive branch's role in checks and balances. The police are the mechanism the Executive branch uses to execute the laws the Legislation passes. For me, I view officer discretion (and the governor/president's role in deciding where to dedicate resources) to be an integral part of checks and balances. A robotic enforcement of the law would be the equivalent of removing jury nullification from the Judicial branch. For a given law to be truly enforced, it takes the legislation to pass it, the executive to enforce it, and the judicial to uphold it (and the citizenry in the jury box).

 

[jsharmon7]

since getting back on the road.

Back on the road? Did they approve fedoras for patrol? They should...

 

[DoggyDaddy]

It depends on how you view the Executive branch's role in checks and balances. The police are the mechanism the Executive branch uses to execute the laws the Legislation passes. For me, I view officer discretion (and the governor/president's role in deciding where to dedicate resources) to be an integral part of checks and balances. A robotic enforcement of the law would be the equivalent of removing jury nullification from the Judicial branch. For a given law to be truly enforced, it takes the legislation to pass it, the executive to enforce it, and the judicial to uphold it (and the citizenry in the jury box).

Are there "checks" on the checks? By that I mean if an officer feels strongly that marijuana should be legalized, can he simply turn a blind eye when he pulls someone over and finds 10 lbs. of weed? Same thing with my gun control example. How much discretion is allowable, and who determines that?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Are there "checks" on the checks? By that I mean if an officer feels strongly that marijuana should be legalized, can he simply turn a blind eye when he pulls someone over and finds 10 lbs. of weed? Same thing with my gun control example. How much discretion is allowable, and who determines that?

Police answer to the chief executive (mayor, governor, POTUS). Chief executive answer to voters. Plus various laws and court orders, but you get the idea.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Police answer to the chief executive (mayor, governor, POTUS). Chief executive answer to voters. Plus various laws and court orders, but you get the idea.

So in theory, an individual officer *could* get away with ignoring some things, at least until his superiors got wind of it (and up the chain it goes). I know I provided an extreme example though. Guessing being lenient on common traffic offenses wouldn't rise to that level of attention.

 

[jsx1043]

So, my two cents:

I like them in concept, not in execution.

I hate that that when I drive downtown, all I see is homeless people and scooters laying all over the sidewalks.

I also dislike Blue Indy cars and the rental bikes, but at least the rental bikes aren’t as much of a nuisance as the scooters. They stay locked up in the racks and the users operate them on the roads correctly, at least most of the time. The Blue Indy cars can go to hell and give us our parking spaces back and the city can back pay us for all the money they took from the public safety budget to pay for them.

I think dude getting blasted by the Red Dodge Ram should go to hell too, he got what he deserved and he better not get a payout. Homie needs to pay a fine, get a ticket, pay to fix the dude’s truck, and have to wash it by hand once a week for the next year for causing the owner pain and suffering.

 

[hoosierdoc]

I saw many today driving on near north side. Most were perpendicular to the sidewalk. One was being by an unhelmeted guy who seemed unbalanced

 

[BehindBlueI's]

So in theory, an individual officer *could* get away with ignoring some things, at least until his superiors got wind of it (and up the chain it goes). I know I provided an extreme example though. Guessing being lenient on common traffic offenses wouldn't rise to that level of attention.

Traffic tickets, low level misdemeanors, etc. it's written into our general orders that officers have discretion as an arrest/ticket is not always the best way to address a situation, etc.

 

[hoosierdoc]

I watched a car trying to inch out of an alley last night downtown. At least six scooters went flying by at full speed just in front of his bumper. He kept creeping and stopping. There is zero visibility from the narrow alley. Having something go by at 12mph in unexpected. I probably saw 50 people on them, and maybe two not on the sidewalk.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Last week I saw one on the sidewalk in front of the VA Med Center's employee parking garage. I didn't expect to see one that far west.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Last week I saw one on the sidewalk in front of the VA Med Center's employee parking garage. I didn't expect to see one that far west.

I saw one (abandoned) on White River Parkway north of 10th St. a week or two ago. I wasn't expecting one out there either.

 

[KMaC]

This is a new business opportunity in retrieving scooters. I wonder if the scavengers (the guys that go around stealing copper and manhole covers, guard rails, light poles) will switch over to scooter pick ups?

 

[KMaC]

I just saw a scooter on W. 10th at Raceway (the Marion/ Hendricks county line). Young man (didn't appear to be 18 but I may be wrong) going about 15mph in a 40mph zone with 100yds of traffic backed up behind him.
I don't know that he was doing anything illegal since mopeds are pretty much the same thing and they are legal, but this seems really dangerous.
OK, old man rant over. Maybe.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Second E-Scooter Company Lime Rider Dies | Fortune

Lime[FONT=&quot] saw the second death of a scooter rider this month.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The incident happened in Washington, D.C., after the rider was pulled under an SUV, the Washington Post reported. No charges were filed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The fledgling e-scooter company saw its [/FONT]first death in Dallas[FONT=&quot] earlier this month. The rider fell off the scooter and died from blunt force trauma to the head.....[/FONT]

 

[fullmetaljesus]

It's frustrating that people are being so irresponsible.
I use one a couple times a week and have yet to have any close calls or problems.

Hell I even bought a high vis vest just for good measure.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

It's frustrating that people are being so irresponsible.
I use one a couple times a week and have yet to have any close calls or problems.

Hell I even bought a high vis vest just for good measure.

Should have bought a PT belt. You're invincible with a PT belt.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Should have bought a PT belt. You're invincible with a PT belt.

Physical therapy?