Carry in police stations

[lovemachine]

When in doubt, leave it in the car. At least that's what I do. I'm not taking the chance of breaking the law.

 

[Kutnupe14]

When in doubt, leave it in the car. At least that's what I do. I'm not taking the chance of breaking the law.

Realistically, I have never seen a person arrested simply for a GFZ violation, and I've seen a bunch of violations. People are simply told, when it's noticed, to put it someplace secure. Anybody have a situation where someone was locked up, solely, based on a GFZ violation that was an honest mistake due to ignorance, rather than trying to prove a point?

 

[Alamo]

I've been going through several states' carry laws doing research for something else, but so far most states don't seem to allow licensed carry in a police station, or it's ambiguous/"depends" like Indiana. In Texas and a couple other states licensed carry is legal in police stations except for secure areas, and in the event you are required to enter the secure area, the police are supposed to provide storage for your handgun. This was included (in Texas) in the part of the law that forbids state and local governments from prohibiting licensed carry in state or local government premises or on government land, except for what is defined in the statute (like K-12 schools and court rooms). I wouldn't expend any political capital just on carry in a police station in Indiana, but if there is a broader change (like affecting all state and local government buildings) that would be a good time to tidy things up.

 

[rhino]

Not to argue, but to inform: The law allows for any building with a courtroom to be off limits. It does not require it to be so, and I'm aware of two county courthouses, one of which very specifically allowed carry, while the other just doesn't forbid it. The former of those was made to happen in part by the efforts of an INGOer.

I wish I could truthfully say I was the one who did it. Alas, I am not.

Blessings,
Bill

Which counties?

I was not pleased when Montgomery County put a metal detector in a couple of years ago. I was even less pleased when they did it at the entrance instead of at an interior spot where they could justify that it needs to be secure. Now I can't go to any of county offices that are located in that building that have zero involvement with the court.

 

[Fargo]

Also consider the example of Marion County Jail although not a police station I think(?). To enter it has an area with lockers for visitors and employees to unload their stuff prior to going through detectors. At a glance it would be OK to carry in, lock it up and then enter. HOWEVER, it holds juveniles so it has an IPS (school) in it making the entire building off limits.
My point:If the police station has a detention center that is big enough it might have a school presence.

I would recommend against ever even considering carrying in any part of a jail, even if there are lockers. There is a specific statute IC 35-44.1-3-5 making this a criminal act and on its face it doesn't distinguish between the nonsecure portion.


(d) A person who:
(1) is not an inmate of a penal facility or a child of a juvenilefacility; and
(2) knowingly or intentionally possesses in, or carries or causesto be brought into, the penal facility or juvenile facility a deadlyweapon without the prior authorization of the person in chargeof the penal facility or juvenile facility;
commits carrying a deadly weapon into a correctional facility, aLevel 5 felony.
As added by P.L.126-2012, SEC.54. Amended by P.L.5-2013, SEC.1;P.L.158-2013, SEC.512; P.L.168-2014, SEC.81.

 

[Trigger Time]

I love how this has gone from "can I carry in a police station?" to "cops don't know ****!" Although I'm not surprised.

What I said wasn't meant to be a negative against cops. The same sentiment has been expressed on ingo about police by police before. It was a discussion about ilea where that was raised Who knows how long ago. You all are humans and not cyborg robots. Although the future is coming officer robocop lol

 

[Gabriel]

What I said wasn't meant to be a negative against cops. The same sentiment has been expressed on ingo about police by police before. It was a discussion about ilea where that was raised Who knows how long ago. You all are humans and not cyborg robots. Although the future is coming officer robocop lol

I understood what you meant (and I think he did also). There are so many laws that it is impossible to know them all. That's why you see lawyers that specialize in this or that. Cops, on the other hand, have to basically "know everything". There is a reason I keep a copy of the Indiana Criminal Code handy and it is because I can't possibly know it all.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Which counties?

I was not pleased when Montgomery County put a metal detector in a couple of years ago. I was even less pleased when they did it at the entrance instead of at an interior spot where they could justify that it needs to be secure. Now I can't go to any of county offices that are located in that building that have zero involvement with the court.

Vigo and Carroll, respectively. Vigo specifically allowed carry in their courthouse, IIRC. Carroll just looks the other way, I was told.

The guy who worked on it for Vigo hasn't logged in here in 2 1/2 years, or I'd ask him to clarify.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[rhino]

Vigo and Carroll, respectively. Vigo specifically allowed carry in their courthouse, IIRC. Carroll just looks the other way, I was told.

The guy who worked on it for Vigo hasn't logged in here in 2 1/2 years, or I'd ask him to clarify.

Blessings,
Bill

That is outstanding!

I "heard" that Putnam Co removed their metal detector, but I cannot verify.

 

[rosejm]

I would not recommend the INGO approved forehead carry, however
Nor the low-ready carry position either...

 

[dudley0]

I was not pleased when Montgomery County put a metal detector in a couple of years ago. I was even less pleased when they did it at the entrance instead of at an interior spot where they could justify that it needs to be secure. Now I can't go to any of county offices that are located in that building that have zero involvement with the court.

Have one house in Delaware county. I had to do some paperwork on the title work. I went in to the county building and there was a metal detector at the main entrance.

I told the officer I would be right back. Returned after I unloaded and walked thru... got a beep. Remembered I had a speed strip in my pocket for the BUG.

Uggg, walked back and dropped that off.

Then I passed the test. Officer asked me what was up, I told him I was armed. He asked if I was LEO. I responded that I was not, but that I didn't realize there was a court room or holding area in the building.

He said there was neither... I asked why the high security... he shrugged.

Fortunately I could do the rest of my business after that day via snail mail.

 

[cobber]

Not to argue, but to inform: The law allows for any building with a courtroom to be off limits. It does not require it to be so, and I'm aware of two county courthouses, one of which very specifically allowed carry, while the other just doesn't forbid it. The former of those was made to happen in part by the efforts of an INGOer.

I wish I could truthfully say I was the one who did it. Alas, I am not.

Blessings,
Bill

Unfortunately people just like to make stuff up where this is concerned.

And why the police bashing? While police may enforce laws, if you want a legal opinion you can rely on, you have to ask a lawyer.

 

[LP1]

That seems about right. Like TT said, no cop could possibly know all the laws.

They ought to at least know the relevant laws on anything they're going to arrest someone for, shouldn't they?

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

They ought to at least know the relevant laws on anything they're going to arrest someone for, shouldn't they?

Who is going to be arrested?

 

[dudley0]

Who is going to be arrested?

Replace arrest with curb stomp... it was just an auto-correct mishap.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Replace arrest with curb stomp... it was just an auto-correct mishap.

I don't need to know any laws in order to dole out curbstomps, so that doesn't really fit.

 

[dudley0]

I don't need to know any laws in order to dole out curbstomps, so that doesn't really fit.

I thought you walked up and said "I am the law!" right before the stomp... and since you know yourself you then know the law.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Maybe

Probably the best answer.

Depends on the situation, and which part of the station.

Acceptable.

Depends on the type of detention I guess. There's holding cells at CPD HQ, but I don't think they apply. I think it's more along the lines of awaiting trial or serving a sentence type detention areas.

Here is the IC definition that I believe you are talking about.

IC 35-31.5-2-232
"Penal facility"
Sec. 232. "Penal facility" means a state prison, correctional
facility, county jail, penitentiary, house of correction, or any other
facility for confinement of persons under sentence, or awaiting trial
or sentence, for offenses. The term includes a correctional facility
constructed under IC 4-13.5.

I would recommend against ever even considering carrying in any part of a jail, even if there are lockers. There is a specific statute IC 35-44.1-3-5 making this a criminal act and on its face it doesn't distinguish between the nonsecure portion.

(d) A person who:
(1) is not an inmate of a penal facility or a child of a juvenilefacility; and
(2) knowingly or intentionally possesses in, or carries or causesto be brought into, the penal facility or juvenile facility a deadlyweapon without the prior authorization of the person in chargeof the penal facility or juvenile facility;
commits carrying a deadly weapon into a correctional facility, aLevel 5 felony.
As added by P.L.126-2012, SEC.54. Amended by P.L.5-2013, SEC.1;P.L.158-2013, SEC.512; P.L.168-2014, SEC.81.

Yep. But what would fall under "or awaiting trial or sentence, for offenses." in the above quoted definition? Would a holding cell in a local PD count? How about a holding cell outside a courtroom? iirc Many years ago I heard of someone being charged with trafficking with an inmate. They were passing them cigarettes in the courtroom. I don't have any idea of how it turned out though. I believe it was in Hammond city court.

Vigo and Carroll, respectively. Vigo specifically allowed carry in their courthouse, IIRC. Carroll just looks the other way, I was told.

The guy who worked on it for Vigo hasn't logged in here in 2 1/2 years, or I'd ask him to clarify.

Blessings,
Bill

White county used to allow it a few years ago if court wasn't in session, I have no idea about now. They had a portable metal detector set up while court was in session but that was the only time. And court was usually outside "business hours" for the rest of the building.

Have one house in Delaware county. I had to do some paperwork on the title work. I went in to the county building and there was a metal detector at the main entrance.

I told the officer I would be right back. Returned after I unloaded and walked thru... got a beep. Remembered I had a speed strip in my pocket for the BUG.

Uggg, walked back and dropped that off.

Then I passed the test. Officer asked me what was up, I told him I was armed. He asked if I was LEO. I responded that I was not, but that I didn't realize there was a court room or holding area in the building.

He said there was neither... I asked why the high security... he shrugged.

Fortunately I could do the rest of my business after that day via snail mail.

Local govts can prohibit firearms in buildings. They have to have a metal detector manned by a LEO to do so. BUT and this is a big but, they can't prohibit handguns if the carrier has a LTCH.

 

[Fargo]

Yep. But what would fall under "or awaiting trial or sentence, for offenses." in the above quoted definition? Would a holding cell in a local PD count? How about a holding cell outside a courtroom? iirc Many years ago I heard of someone being charged with trafficking with an inmate. They were passing them cigarettes in the courtroom. I don't have any idea of how it turned out though. I believe it was in Hammond city court.

I don't believe holding cells count as penal facilities but I would have to check the case law. Keep in mind, there is more to the trafficking with an inmate statute than what I posted and it has been amended several times in the last 10 years.

 

[Fargo]

Did a quick scan of the caselaw, can't find anything even claiming that a holding cell at a PD etc. is a penal facility. All of the cases deal either with jails or prisons or with halfway house type facilities.