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Choosing Your First Handgun
- Thread starter VERT
- Start date
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Have you ever had your wife try shooting a smaller Glock 26 or even a M&P Shield?
Or even a Kahr 9mm? Those are smaller 9mm's.
Other than single-stacks, it doesn't get much smaller for a 9mm than the Ruger SR9c. She's tried that, plus whatever Glocks my dad has (I can't keep track of the model numbers), both full-sized and compact.
Other than grip size, I'm not sure smaller is better. She has very little hand strength (due to the nerve damage), so the added recoil of smaller pistols becomes an issue. Right now, she's happy with the Glock 42, so I'm happy. Now, we can work on the skill/experience/comfort, and go from there.
If the wife has confidence in her Glock 42 then that is the best choice for her!
The SR9c is harder to work the slide. Smaller gun means less slide mass. Less slide mass means heavier recoil spring. Smaller gun means less area to grab onto.
My my wife actually went with a 9mm 1911. Big gun, low recoil, 12 pound recoil spring. Easy peasy
The SR9c is harder to work the slide. Smaller gun means less slide mass. Less slide mass means heavier recoil spring. Smaller gun means less area to grab onto.
My my wife actually went with a 9mm 1911. Big gun, low recoil, 12 pound recoil spring. Easy peasy
Several posts (including one of my own) have gotten hung up on "the list" instead of focusing on the criteria that helped to form the list...
There are several firearms that fit most of the criteria, but not all. In some locals the firearms on the list may not be easily found at their LGS...
Please realize that the most important part of the Original Post is the Criteria...
There are several firearms that fit most of the criteria, but not all. In some locals the firearms on the list may not be easily found at their LGS...
Please realize that the most important part of the Original Post is the Criteria...
Yep!
Guns are a bit like wine: one isn't necessarily better than another; it all comes down to personal needs and preference.
BehindBlueI's
Grandmaster
- Oct 3, 2012
- 25,903
- 113
Sure, but shops aren't generally selling at MSRP either. Giving a newb an idea of what they should expect to pay is, IMO, better information than the MSRP. As an example:
"
| Smith & Wesson | $449 - $669 | Shield..... |
The highest priced Shield I've seen locally in awhile was at $409. I understand that price range is for all the various S&W you have listed...but what if it puts someone off the Shield because they think its out of their price range based on the MSRP only listings? Pretend I know nothing. I stop in to Don's guns. What results? I either end up paying too much ( A Shield for $500? Well, that's in the low end of the range he listed...) or I buy a trash gun because I don't think I could afford the S&W so I never ask about it.
I could be overthinking it, but that's where I was coming from, not trying to save a few bucks online vs local.
Hmm... Yeah good feedback BBI. I originally left price completely out of the discussion but feedback asked for price. What to do.
That said people probably can look to MSRP for a realistic budget. When you figure in sales tax, extra mag, holster, cleaning kit, etc. It always costs more then what people think it will.
That said people probably can look to MSRP for a realistic budget. When you figure in sales tax, extra mag, holster, cleaning kit, etc. It always costs more then what people think it will.
I think BBI is onto something. When I was choosing my first gun the LGS I went to had everything at MSRP. I checked the pricing online and saw that it was the same as that shop. I had no idea guns regularly sold well under MSRP. As far as I knew that meant the shop had good prices. Luckily, I didn't have the money to buy just yet and I wandered into other shops and saw better pricing. It saved me $110 to drive to the other side of town.
Very true. When I first started shooting, there was a lot of apprehension on my part when considering various guns to shoot. My buddy got me comfortable with a Glock 19 and I didn't want to try anything else for the first few months. After that I slowly expanded my exposure to other guns. If someone had asked me if I wanted to shoot a 1911 that first month I would have declined but now, after ~18 months of shooting, I'll shoot anything you put in my hands...
What about adding another column with "average shop price" or something similar. You can even put a caveat in the following paragraph saying the prices were good as of the time of the post, to avoid any confusion. That would provide comparison and contrast with the MSRP. As for the extras, you may just specify that in the following paragraph as well. "always remember, the price posted above doesn't include sales tax. You'll also need to think about picking up other accessories that are necessary to gun ownership, such as a holster, spare magazines, a cleaning kit, range bag, hearing protection, eye protection, etc." Maybe link to a couple big sites that carry such things to give people a good idea, or maybe link to other threads here in the forum that discuss these things? Just a thought.
Otherwise, very nice write up!
I'm going to see if I can revive this thread. It's being referenced by other current threads.
WOW, Nate, great start to a difficult task. I love trying to be objective about a subjective topic. Criteria is the only way to go without devolving into a beauty contest. Your emphasis on criteria, rather than on the list, is spot on. You didn't seem offended by the snob comment because the list actually does have the best.
I have a few comments about the criteria and I love this topic:
I have been working on a spreadsheet of criteria. I tried not to eliminate certain gun types by choosing criteria that would only fit one type of gun. I believe that is what you've done here, without fully explaining why. If you would have just said "for defensive use", my issues go away. Without that as stated criteria, the list only fits one type of use. That was the toughest thing I learned trying to evaluate one gun against another. What is it's use? I don't think there is a criteria for the best first gun. I believe you have to state the use to get the word "best" to have any meaning. Best first gun for defense, Best first gun for disabled seniors, Best first gun for target shooting, Best first gun for Hunting. Even these may still need to be narrowed to get a relevant list.
Examples:
a) b) c) are perfect! still an open discussion.
d) popular and widely available model - spare parts yes, but accessories listed are about defensive carry
e) cartridge suitable for self defense - this is the worst. the assumption is that all first guns are about defense. I believe that most people buy for defense. That only leaves 49% who buy for fun and never intend to shoot anybody (OK, it's not exactly 49)
A) Striker fired - Some people love this trigger design. I can't say I'm one. The consistency spoken of is correct - it's always spongy. There is an implication that other triggers are inconsistent. There is no reason given for the opinion that other designs require more training. I guess if you use that example of a 12 lb trigger pull in double action, then yea, that apple is harder than that orange.
If the criteria stopped there, there was still a chance for discussion.
D) Polymer frame - lighter, why is that good? recoil? Oh, for carry. Another defense criteria.
F) Interchangeable backstraps - limits discussion to semi-auto category. why not say grips? using the word Pistol five times in the first 5 criteria is also a give-away as the word means semi-auto.
H) 9mm - yes , cheap. yes, readily available. This is also all about defense. A .22 is the single best training tool;but, of course, it's not defense. Why not build confidence and skills? Learn to pull a trigger and not flinch.
You can disagree about slide racking all you want. I have many seniors who can not rack a slide and will never "learn" because it's not about stupid. It's about strength. I've watched dozens try every technique known to man without success. Seniors are who I work with.
If I can get my spreadsheet cleaned up, I would like to post it for feedback. We have many of the exact same criteria. I have 14 criteria, and they can all be custom "weighted" for each person's preferences.
Great Post! I love it when I'm forced to think and not just state my favorite flavor.
WOW, Nate, great start to a difficult task. I love trying to be objective about a subjective topic. Criteria is the only way to go without devolving into a beauty contest. Your emphasis on criteria, rather than on the list, is spot on. You didn't seem offended by the snob comment because the list actually does have the best.
I have a few comments about the criteria and I love this topic:
I have been working on a spreadsheet of criteria. I tried not to eliminate certain gun types by choosing criteria that would only fit one type of gun. I believe that is what you've done here, without fully explaining why. If you would have just said "for defensive use", my issues go away. Without that as stated criteria, the list only fits one type of use. That was the toughest thing I learned trying to evaluate one gun against another. What is it's use? I don't think there is a criteria for the best first gun. I believe you have to state the use to get the word "best" to have any meaning. Best first gun for defense, Best first gun for disabled seniors, Best first gun for target shooting, Best first gun for Hunting. Even these may still need to be narrowed to get a relevant list.
Examples:
a) b) c) are perfect! still an open discussion.
d) popular and widely available model - spare parts yes, but accessories listed are about defensive carry
e) cartridge suitable for self defense - this is the worst. the assumption is that all first guns are about defense. I believe that most people buy for defense. That only leaves 49% who buy for fun and never intend to shoot anybody (OK, it's not exactly 49)
A) Striker fired - Some people love this trigger design. I can't say I'm one. The consistency spoken of is correct - it's always spongy. There is an implication that other triggers are inconsistent. There is no reason given for the opinion that other designs require more training. I guess if you use that example of a 12 lb trigger pull in double action, then yea, that apple is harder than that orange.
If the criteria stopped there, there was still a chance for discussion.
D) Polymer frame - lighter, why is that good? recoil? Oh, for carry. Another defense criteria.
F) Interchangeable backstraps - limits discussion to semi-auto category. why not say grips? using the word Pistol five times in the first 5 criteria is also a give-away as the word means semi-auto.
H) 9mm - yes , cheap. yes, readily available. This is also all about defense. A .22 is the single best training tool;but, of course, it's not defense. Why not build confidence and skills? Learn to pull a trigger and not flinch.
You can disagree about slide racking all you want. I have many seniors who can not rack a slide and will never "learn" because it's not about stupid. It's about strength. I've watched dozens try every technique known to man without success. Seniors are who I work with.
If I can get my spreadsheet cleaned up, I would like to post it for feedback. We have many of the exact same criteria. I have 14 criteria, and they can all be custom "weighted" for each person's preferences.
Great Post! I love it when I'm forced to think and not just state my favorite flavor.
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Prescut thanks for the feedback. Yes I specifically addressed self defense and possibly the action pistol sports. Dedicated uses such as hunting or target shooting are a different topic all together. Usually people who partipate in hunting with handguns are experienced shooters. Same can be said for the target shooting sports.
I did refer to semi automatic handguns. I find very few people who do not have the strength to rack a slide, that is if they are determined to do it. It is my opinion that the trigger on a DAO revolver is more difficult for people with weak hands then the slide. Hitting the target is still important. The answer of course is an older, slicked up K frame but good luck finding those on the cheap. Oh and I am not anti revolver, I am sitting in a conference right now, crowded room, J frame as my companion. Regarding the racking of the slide, in some respects who cares. A Glock 26 carries twice the capacity of my J frame and a Glock 17 has three times the capacity of a K frame. How much slide racking is required?
I did refer to semi automatic handguns. I find very few people who do not have the strength to rack a slide, that is if they are determined to do it. It is my opinion that the trigger on a DAO revolver is more difficult for people with weak hands then the slide. Hitting the target is still important. The answer of course is an older, slicked up K frame but good luck finding those on the cheap. Oh and I am not anti revolver, I am sitting in a conference right now, crowded room, J frame as my companion. Regarding the racking of the slide, in some respects who cares. A Glock 26 carries twice the capacity of my J frame and a Glock 17 has three times the capacity of a K frame. How much slide racking is required?
hey Vert,
You're right in my wheel house. A double action pull is impossible for some of us seniors and disabled. I couldn't agree more. I got a brand new Ruger sp101 and it had a 13+ lb pull. Impossible for many to pull and most others will not hit the target. It now has an 8 lb pull and a 3 lb pull.
I try semi-auto, where I load it up and put one in the chamber, first and watch. I try to get them interested right away and to see the task as fun. That helps when we start the slide racking exercises. I like the exposed hammer autos when they can't break that first inertia. I have them pull the hammer back by hand which can cut half the pull on that slide. With a striker fired pistol that is not usually an option.
I teach chest level slide racking as well, althought I don't like it because you're often sweeping your neighbor . It's easier for many to get more fingers and more of the thumb on the slide that way. Hold with that forward hand and push with the hand on the grip. No matter what I try, sometimes it just can't be done.
I have tried several times to load magazines, put one in the chamber, set the safety, and send them home with the trainees. I was shocked that several
would not leave the building with a loaded gun, period! Questions flew about what if I'm stopped, what if I get into an accident, what if....? There are few answers to fear.
My training often involves shooting in single action only (SAO) because of the folks I work with. Pull that trigger back by hand on double actions with heavy pulls. Your suggestion of an old tuned up K frame is exactly my recommendation to these folks. Gunbroker for $350. Model 19 is awesome, but the model 10 is cheap.
I have had several that loved stoning those action parts themselves.
Nate, partner, you're a man after my own heart.
Prescut
You're right in my wheel house. A double action pull is impossible for some of us seniors and disabled. I couldn't agree more. I got a brand new Ruger sp101 and it had a 13+ lb pull. Impossible for many to pull and most others will not hit the target. It now has an 8 lb pull and a 3 lb pull.
I try semi-auto, where I load it up and put one in the chamber, first and watch. I try to get them interested right away and to see the task as fun. That helps when we start the slide racking exercises. I like the exposed hammer autos when they can't break that first inertia. I have them pull the hammer back by hand which can cut half the pull on that slide. With a striker fired pistol that is not usually an option.
I teach chest level slide racking as well, althought I don't like it because you're often sweeping your neighbor . It's easier for many to get more fingers and more of the thumb on the slide that way. Hold with that forward hand and push with the hand on the grip. No matter what I try, sometimes it just can't be done.
I have tried several times to load magazines, put one in the chamber, set the safety, and send them home with the trainees. I was shocked that several
would not leave the building with a loaded gun, period! Questions flew about what if I'm stopped, what if I get into an accident, what if....? There are few answers to fear.
My training often involves shooting in single action only (SAO) because of the folks I work with. Pull that trigger back by hand on double actions with heavy pulls. Your suggestion of an old tuned up K frame is exactly my recommendation to these folks. Gunbroker for $350. Model 19 is awesome, but the model 10 is cheap.
I have had several that loved stoning those action parts themselves.
Nate, partner, you're a man after my own heart.
Prescut
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My wife has arthritis and a hand injury. She shoots 9mm 1911s because of the light recoil and because she can thumb the hammer before racking the slide. Biggest problem with polymer guns and weak hands is the "limp wristing" malfunction. This is less of a problem with heavier guns but getting a good grip and behind the gun is top priority. I also thumb the double action revolvers if possible. Goal is to get hits on target and success quickly.
For the chest rackers, Have them turn sideways so that the gun is pointed down range and not at the neighbor. My wife also shoots strong side foot forward which is bassackwards. Hey it works for her. Point is don't get too caught up with the whole feet/stance thing. Figure out what works for different people.
For the chest rackers, Have them turn sideways so that the gun is pointed down range and not at the neighbor. My wife also shoots strong side foot forward which is bassackwards. Hey it works for her. Point is don't get too caught up with the whole feet/stance thing. Figure out what works for different people.
Nice write-up...thbought thru very well and nicely-stated!
I've helped several individuals purchase their first handgun over the years and the last 10 the recommendations have pretty much been '9mm or .38' depending on whether you want a semi-auto or a revolver. Many have chosen the Glock 19 for their first pistol...and I believe everyone who did still has + shoots theirs!
I had one friend (female) who started with a Bersa Thunder .380, went down to the Beretta Tomcat .32...then started up with a Glockk 26, then 19, and finally a Ruger SP101 in .38+P. Her final selection was a Kimber Pro Carry II in .45 acp, which she still has today!
It's all about personal preference...comfort level...purpose...etc. I listed this story as an example of the progression many of us make over time...start somewhere...grow thru & into new things, etc.
But you're right...start where one's comfortable yet effective...and move forward from there!
