Church Shooting in Illinois

[protectur6poptectur]

A lot of the larger churches have security but not necessarily armed. I think it is a good idea to be prepared, because evil knows no boundaries. The only difference between Maryville and Indianapolis? It hasn't happened here. Yet?

 

[Hammer]

I will throw this in as well, similar scenario.

Funeral fight sends 4 to jail | Reporter-Times / MD Times

Before you pass judgment, read the comments, several family members stated that the "X" brought 2 "gangmembers" with her and one put a gun to a girls head.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Ahhhh, but preschool Mon through Fri and licensed daycare is a at most Mon through Sat, Sunday is Church only, should not fall under that guide line while attending church on Sundays.

Sorry, no. A "school" is never "not a school", and for this reason, you can be arrested if you carry at your kid's elementary, middle, or high school, even in the middle of the night in the summer.

I wish it was otherwise, but at present, that's the law. No exception written to cover times when "school" is not in session. You could probably get permission from your pastor (or whoever is the principal/headmaster), however, and be OK. Again, consider Jeanne Assam's example, and if necessary, present it as you being a volunteer security guard, or if for some reason you must be paid, take a salary of a dollar a year and put that in the collection plate.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[agentl074]

The only possible issue with being designated as armed security is the liability issue of not being bonded by the State of Indiana whether you are bonded via security/investigative agency or police department.

 

[originalhonkey]

for what it is worth. i started going to this church. there were a few people there who had made some remarks about guns that let me know that they could do with out them. i would say the 45 on my belt is why they made the remarks. i let it go at the time but then started to invite some of the guys out shooting and then some of the others wanted to check it out. now i would say more carry than not even the pastor. this didnt happen over night but now there are some people that are pro gun that were not before. i did not ask for the blessing of the church i just took it upon myself as an after church thing and alot of them saw the light. any how it is a sad time when we have to deal with this in the house of god. this world gets sicker every day. god have mercy on us all!!!!!!

 

[dutch_cop2]

Situations like this goes to show no place is safe from attacks.

 

[mattfoley]

guys, the shooter had an arsenal in his bed room: one brick of .22Lr and two shotguns.....

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Nursery, Daycare, All the same, Right? And they have teachers teaching the older kids about God. Sunday School anyone?

Not quite the same. And under the definitions for daycare and nursery churches are exempt because they are not required to be licensed for the most part.

Look I just don't want to do anything that would get my license revoked. You understand right?

Yep I understand that.

Prove that it's legal to carry in church while Sunday School and the daycare's are going and then I will carry. Until then I will continue being stubborn, like my fiance says, and just not go. I haven't been to church in a couple months now. I only go a few times a year. It's hard to sit through a sermon when they start focusing on how much money they've earned how big their church is getting, all the overseas trips they take, etc.
Church + Money = Greed
Kingsway anyone? PCC? All about money, every Sunday.

First do they call it sunday school or bible study? Although no matter what they call it I don't think it meets the definition of a school.

But for the day care that is exempt under ic 12-17.2
Licensure exemptions
(3) A nonresidential program for a child that provides child care for less than four (4) hours a day.
(5) A program whose primary purpose is to provide social, recreational, or religious activities for school age children, such as scouting, boys club, girls club, sports, or the arts.

The sunday school is a bit harder due to the name 'school' but it could probably be fought that it is a school in name only. I'm sure the state of Indiana wouldn't accept that your child didn't need to go to school or pass the homeschooling tests because he or she went there would they?

 

[SavageEagle]

See... This is exactly why I won't carry in our church. I leave it in the car or something. I don't want to be the test case for this subject. Plus there's too much crap going on to make a concious desicion to put my rights in jeapordy. School or nusery or not, Until she finds a church that doesn't have a licensed day care I won't carry in church. *cough*

 

[Bigum1969]

See... This is exactly why I won't carry in our church. I leave it in the car or something. I don't want to be the test case for this subject. Plus there's too much crap going on to make a concious desicion to put my rights in jeapordy. School or nusery or not, Until she finds a church that doesn't have a licensed day care I won't carry in church. *cough*

I'm may very well be wrong, but I think leaving it in your car is a no-no as well.

 

[Doug]

The prohibition against carrying at a school or day care makes it illegal to leave it in the car. You can carry to drop off or pick up someone if and only if you stay in the car.
This is why I carry a Kimber pepper shooter when I go to church. I'd much rather have my J-frame, but I doubt my Pastor would designate me security personel to make my carry legal.

Doug

 

[Chaddeous]

This world is getting more and more ****ed up everyday and these kind of people just make it harder for people like us to keep our right to own guns!

 

[Timjoebillybob]

The prohibition against carrying at a school or day care makes it illegal to leave it in the car. You can carry to drop off or pick up someone if and only if you stay in the car.
Doug

This is what confuses me on Indiana Code, what your talking about is I think this
IC 35-47-9-1
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
Where IC 35-47-2-1
IC 35-47-2-1
Carrying a handgun without a license or by person convicted of domestic battery
Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the person's dwelling, on the person's property or fixed place of business, without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possession.
(b) Unless the person's right to possess a firearm has been restored under IC 35-47-4-7, a person who has been convicted of domestic battery under IC 35-42-2-1.3 may not possess or carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body in the person's dwelling or on the person's property or fixed place of business.

According to IC there is a difference between possess and carry what is what?

WTF is the definition of possess and carry? According to websters

POSSESS
1 a: to have and hold as property : own b: to have as an attribute, knowledge, or skill2 a: to take into one's [URL="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/possession"]possession b: to enter into and control firmly : dominate <was possessed by demons> c: to bring or cause to fall under the influence, possession, or control of some emotional or intellectual response or reaction

CARRY
1: to move while supporting
5: to get possession or control of
8 a: to wear or have on one's person
[/URL]

 

[dburkhead]

See... This is exactly why I won't carry in our church. I leave it in the car or something. I don't want to be the test case for this subject. Plus there's too much crap going on to make a concious desicion to put my rights in jeapordy. School or nusery or not, Until she finds a church that doesn't have a licensed day care I won't carry in church. *cough*

If the church counts as a "school" then leaving it in your car is just as illegal as carrying it.

 

[dburkhead]

This is what confuses me on Indiana Code, what your talking about is I think this
IC 35-47-9-1
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
Where IC 35-47-2-1
IC 35-47-2-1
Carrying a handgun without a license or by person convicted of domestic battery
Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the person's dwelling, on the person's property or fixed place of business, without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possession.
(b) Unless the person's right to possess a firearm has been restored under IC 35-47-4-7, a person who has been convicted of domestic battery under IC 35-42-2-1.3 may not possess or carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body in the person's dwelling or on the person's property or fixed place of business.

According to IC there is a difference between possess and carry what is what?

WTF is the definition of possess and carry? According to websters

POSSESS
1 a: to have and hold as property : own b: to have as an attribute, knowledge, or skill2 a: to take into one's possession b: to enter into and control firmly : dominate <was possessed by demons> c: to bring or cause to fall under the influence, possession, or control of some emotional or intellectual response or reaction

CARRY
1: to move while supporting
5: to get possession or control of
8 a: to wear or have on one's person

I would strongly recommend you get Ciyou's book "Indiana Handgun Law."

In the case of having it in your car while on school property, that is definitely illegal--supported by case law with actual, bona fide convictions on the charge--unless you are transporting a child to/from the school and remain in the car while doing so.

It's why I park across the street from the daycare when dropping my daughter off.

 

[SavageEagle]

If the church counts as a "school" then leaving it in your car is just as illegal as carrying it.

Only if you park on THEIR property!!! See, now, I think ahead! I just have to walk farther at the end of church to go fetch the car for the girls.

I would strongly recommend you get Ciyou's book "Indiana Handgun Law."

+10000!!! INVALUABLE book. Just about anyone's questions can be answered in his book.

(I just come up with some WAY off base questions.... )

 

[protectur6poptectur]

I will definitely get that book on Indiana Firearms law. There is also one about firearms laws in all 50 states. I have checked several states and quite a few have reciprocity with Indiana, which means our license is recognized in their state and theirs in Indiana, however i don't know of anyone who has tested this out.
Church and school aren't the same, unless the church has a school. Right? What is the code on that?

 

[Keith_Indy]

I brought up the IL church shooting with the pastor of the church I go to, and he said, they had a no guns policy. I then asked what sort of plans they had for such an emergency, and he said they didn't have any. I also asked about what plans they had for a tornado, and he wasn't to clear about that, other then saying they had a weather radio somewhere. I have a feeling that will be brought up at the assembly meeting.

Here are some relevant definitions and US/IN Law.

So, a school has to be a public, private or parochial school to qualify under these laws. Bible instruction at a church isn't considered a school (I would assume unless it's at a parochial school.)

Indiana Code 35-47-9

IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.

Indiana Code 20-18-2

IC 20-18-2-15
"Public school"
Sec. 15. "Public school":
(1) for purposes of this title (other than IC 20-33-1), means a school maintained by a school corporation; and
(2) for purposes of IC 20-33-1, means:
(A) a school maintained by a school corporation; or
(B) a preschool, an elementary school, or a high school maintained by a state educational institution under IC 20-24.5 or another law.

US CODE: Title 18,921. Definitions

(25) The term “school zone” means— (A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or
(B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school.
(26) The term “school” means a school which provides elementary or secondary education, as determined under State law.

US CODE: Title 18,922. Unlawful acts

(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is—
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.