Considering a Pistol Caliber Carbine...which is best?

[NHT3]

For me it was a no brainer. Glock 17 in a CAA Roni stock.
[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” ….Coach[/FONT]

 

[DadSmith]

For me it was a no brainer. Glock 17 in a CAA Roni stock.
[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” ….Coach[/FONT]

I have one for my Glock 20. Makes it a pretty decent Carbine.

 

[Amishman44]

I used to own a JR carbine. Pain in the ass to clean. In order to take out the bolt, you have to remove the buffer tube.

Good to know...

Yes, I have shot +P+ in my Just Right, the performance was not worth the extra cost shooting +P+ over +P. That 16 inch barrel lets a standard 9mm get pushed down the barrel at some very good velocities.

I was told (a few times) that with the smaller casing of the 9mm (i.e., smaller casing => less powder => less burn time), that using a 16" barrel didn't gain one anymore velocity than an 8.5" barrel, as powder-burn was maximized in approximately 8-10"...can anyone confirm this???

 

[daddyusmaximus]

Given any thought to picking up a 9mm AR lower, and building yourself one? Same ideas apply for a standard AR in that there are so many parts available you can pretty much do up anything you want. I grabbed a PSA 9mm lower on the cheap, and did it up pretty nice. I used a Spartan upper, so I even have LRBHO...

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/handguns/480327-plague-pistol-build.html

 

[Karl-just-Karl]

Since this has been an interest of mine for a while, I'll throw in a nickel's worth here.

Waiting for the A3 Stribog with delayed roller action. This really peaks my interest.

FX-9. It looks pretty good, it shoots pretty good. The bolt release is easy to activate when laying with the ejection port up (like at the range). A small rail section added to the left side alleviates this. Sproingy! Sproingy! Sproingy! You can tell it is AR based. I don't mind Shockwave Blades, but I might consider a LAW folder. Problems with the catch on the charging handle. The company claims current rounds of upgrades addressing the issue.

CMMG Banshee. I've had a lot of problems with my MKG (45ACP). I've heard better reports about the 9mm version.

Don't overlook the Scorpion. Good stuff here if you don't mind plastic fantastics. PSA makes 35 round magazines for these now as well as Magpul.

Speaking of PSA... AKV. Front heavy, yes. Easy to control, Yes. Add an ALG trigger and it goes bumpity-bumpity-bumpity. Choose this to eat ammo by the case.

Thureon Defense. Simple, very simple and rugged blowback. Big metal reciprocating block. AR-trigger swap out might need a little work. Drop-in not guaranteed.

Hi-Point? Sure. Kind of bulky for what it is. The trigger mechanism can just fall out if you're not careful with disassembly. Don't worry, it is pretty easy to figure out how to put it back together. The recoil thingy in the stock seems kind of silly, but the gun works.

CX4 Storm. Lightweight. Pretty short since the mag goes in the grip. Trigger is 'meh' if not problematic due to anti-tilt safety mechanism BS. Sierra Papa upgrades recommended. The stainless hammer and aluminum trigger housing make the gun what it should have been. Trigger still can't be called crisp though. It recoils harder than one would expect for a 9mm, especially if you're pushing 147gn to 1200fps.

For the cost of the SP upgrades you can do an MPX from Sig. Super smooth shooting. A royal PITA to clean, lots of parts. I don't care for the internally mounted ejector. It is heavy, but it is by far the smoothest running PCC kind of thing I have ever fired. I've never had a misfire, FTF or FTE.

Ruger PC9 very front heavy, the charger has peaked my interest. I've heard several conflicting reports. I'm waiting for one to make an appearance out at the range.

The Sub2000 had my fascination for a while. Utilitarian, cool folding feature, Keltec trigger, ugh! Difficult to shoot using the irons with over-the-ear protection. Cant't fold it if you have optics mounted.

I'm still looking for a B&T, and wouldn't mind hearing more about Foxtrot Mike stuff.

Sorry for the info overload. Hope you find something useful here. There is no "best" when there are so many flavors to choose from.

 

[Tactically Fat]

CZ Scorpion Evo3

Great guns. Great aftermarket support. Can get aftermarket mags that work GREAT and have metal-reinforced feed lips (factory OEM do not). I've heard that the mags' feed lips are a definite weak point on the Stribog.

Plus, with the exception of maybe the Beretta CX4, the Scorpion is the best looking. Yes - that's subjective.

 

[WebSnyper]

S
FX-9. It looks pretty good, it shoots pretty good. The bolt release is easy to activate when laying with the ejection port up (like at the range). A small rail section added to the left side alleviates this. Sproingy! Sproingy! Sproingy! You can tell it is AR based. I don't mind Shockwave Blades, but I might consider a LAW folder. Problems with the catch on the charging handle. The company claims current rounds of upgrades addressing the issue.

Definitely agree with the observation of activating the bolt release when laying it on its side. I've done that several times.

 

[Ggreen]

Good to know...



I was told (a few times) that with the smaller casing of the 9mm (i.e., smaller casing => less powder => less burn time), that using a 16" barrel didn't gain one anymore velocity than an 8.5" barrel, as powder-burn was maximized in approximately 8-10"...can anyone confirm this???

9mm gains velocity up to around 16 inch barrels

 

[Ggreen]

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: 9mm Luger Results

 

[nipprdog]

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...-lok-moe-ept-shockwave-pistol-5165450022.html

I bought one of these last year. Put close to 2000 trouble free rounds through it so far. Added an SB3 adjustable brace, Sig Romeo 5. It's my funnest gun to shoot. Much more fun than the heavy 16" version.
And if you don't believe me, ask cameramonkey.

 

[Amishman44]

9mm gains velocity up to around 16 inch barrels

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: 9mm Luger Results

Good to know...I think the purpose of the PCC pistol is the shorter barrel, which is what I really want.

I'm also guessing my wife will become very interested in it and a shorter barrel will make it easier for her to handle, weight-wise!

 

[Forkmylife]

Mpx! By a long shot.

 

[daveh196803]

Something more expensive than what I have would be best. I went with the 9mm sub 2000 because it shares mags with Glocks, it folds up in to a compact package, and it didn't cost a lot. It's a fills a specific niche kind of firearm. The only long guns I have that are lighter and handier are some youth bolt action 22's.
If you have one, you can get the Magpul 21 round magazines for it, and extend your capacity without having a stick mag hanging all the way out. The rear sight and the take down lever are polymer. The cheek weld, well you really have to tuck in to line up your sights. So it's not perfect. Mcarbo makes some after market goodies for it that address some things. I have no experience with those though.

 

[DadSmith]

Something more expensive than what I have would be best. I went with the 9mm sub 2000 because it shares mags with Glocks, it folds up in to a compact package, and it didn't cost a lot. It's a fills a specific niche kind of firearm. The only long guns I have that are lighter and handier are some youth bolt action 22's.
If you have one, you can get the Magpul 21 round magazines for it, and extend your capacity without having a stick mag hanging all the way out. The rear sight and the take down lever are polymer. The cheek weld, well you really have to tuck in to line up your sights. So it's not perfect. Mcarbo makes some after market goodies for it that address some things. I have no experience with those though.

I thought about one of these but was unsure about the reliability of them. How are they? Do they eat everything you give them or are they finicky eaters?

 

[Ggreen]

I thought about one of these but was unsure about the reliability of them. How are they? Do they eat everything you give them or are they finicky eaters?

The 2 best moments of owning a sub2k are the thrill of the buy and the relief of making most of your money back.

They kick like a 12ga for some reason, the bolt eats facial hair, folded they are still only marginally smaller than a Beretta cx4 (excellent carbine), red dot mounting is a nightmare or you lose the ability to fold, once you pay to do all the mods you could have had a stribog and a case of 9mm. And they are notoriously unreliable under heavy use. you dont generally see one make it through a day of uspsa without at least 2 or 3 malfunctions.

Do yourself a favor and stay far away from the sub2k. I spent the money and tried to like it, really gave it a chance and it just lacked in every category except resale

 

[Amishman44]

If you have one, you can get the Magpul 21 round magazines for it, and extend your capacity without having a stick mag hanging all the way out.

My LGS was out of the 21-rounders this past Saturday, but he ordered more and my name is on a few of them!

 

[TacOpsGuy320]

I really like my MPX...It does, however, have a ton of upgrades to it but it works for me.

Good luck in your search.

 

[gmcttr]

FWIW, be aware that "pistols" are not allowed in PCC class steel matches.

I built an AR9 pistol first and later found out I could not use it when I got interested in steel matches. I built an AR9 carbine for the PCC steel matches.

My carbine weighs 7 ounces less than the pistol. Most of that is due to the Law folding adapter on the pistol. Using an MBX light weight pinned and welded barrel on the carbine kept the weight and length down. For the $$ I put into it, I should have just bought an MBX PCC complete.

 

[Hohn]

Very timely thread, PCCs are keenly in my interest right now.

Rugers now have the Volquartsen trigger available. Seems to be the bang/buck champ right now with the mlok front and AR carbine stock.

AR9s had my attention briefly, but I got the impression that the only one that's sorted out is JP. Ar platform seems fundamentally at odds with running a blowback subgun.

Scorpion is a solid choice, easy fixes for the dumb ergonomic design decisions. Seems very reliable and works well suppressed.

Stribog A1s are a good deal now with A3s on the way. I'd hold out for A3 myself.

MPX is an awesome gun (Sig is on a roll lately with one homerun after another). A bit $$ for my range though.


I'm thinking Ruger and CZ are my top two, maybe stribog makes #3. Ruger and CZ get me cheap and ubiquitous mags from multiple vendors. I don't like being stuck with a stribog mag prone to the import banning whims of a future Dem.

 

[shootersix]

FWIW, be aware that "pistols" are not allowed in PCC class steel matches.

I built an AR9 pistol first and later found out I could not use it when I got interested in steel matches. I built an AR9 carbine for the PCC steel matches.

.

but if you pay the 200 dollar sbr extortion fee (tax) you can shoot an sbr (in states where they are allowed IE not Illinois)

Rugers now have the Volquartsen trigger available.

AR9s had my attention briefly, but I got the impression that the only one that's sorted out is JP. Ar platform seems fundamentally at odds with running a blowback subgun.


MPX is an awesome gun (Sig is on a roll lately with one homerun after another). A bit $$ for my range though.

if your looking for a trigger for your ruger, look on ebay, volquartsen sells blemished seconds on there, I know a guy who paid 150 for one (vs 250 for a new one) it had a scratch on the housing that you couldn't see when it was installed!

my freedom ordnance fx9 has only had 1 minor problem, the buffer mushroomed over the sides, I called my friend who works there, and they said they'd replace it, I just bought a standard ar15 buffer (my friend said it was just a utg buffer!), but ive fed my fx9 nothing but wolf and tula steel case ammo, and it just chews it up, and spits it out!, it's my competition gun, I shoot it at steel challenge and idpa!

as much as a sig fan boy as I am, I doubt i'd ever buy a mpx, not that theres any problem with them, they're just too damn expensive!