Consumerism

[Eddie]

No eddie, i'm saying that everyones choices are already made for them, all thats left is for you to pick one brand from the winners. Unless of course you want to use the old, i'm to smart to be brainwashed, i'm my own man,blah,blah,blah.

I'm saying that everyone you have ever known has been a part of the propaganda just like you are now, i'm saying that we have all taken part in peer pressure, and laughing at those who dont fit in.

I'm saying freedoms were only given to us to distract us from the raping of our resource's by multinationals, and now all those good days they promised, with paid retirement are going up in smoke.

I'm saying we have been so busy for so long, that there is no choice now. We are screwed and most of the population will die like the sheep they are, gun owners and survivalists included.

You can not fight the enemy if you dont know the enemy(hold on, i realize after reading a little bit more that the liberals are the enemy on this site.) Yes it is now clear most have no clue who is making us live like servants.

And most will die as the tv watching, too busy to care, blaming everyone but yourself, fool that most seem to be.




Ex con buddy, i have NO interest in guns at all, your right about that. My wife asked me to sig up cause i like to discuss that which i am discussing.



Whatever boogieman you want to blame for you being apathic is ok with me bro.



Sweet, cause a min a go it was a conspiracy theory, and no one believed it cause, we are our own men and no one can influnce our mighty brains was the theme i was getting.




Sweet, with that kind of logic, you must be cool with letting in 20 million illegals, as long as they dont take your job today right(who cares if they take your grandkids job 50 years from now)?




I agree, it's sad that you have given them the power to do that(oh wait, you voted for the other guy right?)

Why post on a gun forum if you have no interest in firearms?

Regardless. The things you posted above are conclusions. You have yet to connect your conclusions to your opening statements about consumerism. Why is it bad for someone to successfully market their product to the masses? Other than the instance of a person who buys something on credit that they can't afford to pay for what is the problem with people earning more than they need to live on and then disposing of that wealth by buying useless crap with it?

I can see the connection that you are trying to make but you haven't made it yet. If I am only buying what the winners want me to buy, why is that bad? The winners won, they played the game the best and get to enjoy being winners. Why is that bad?

 

[Fletch]

No eddie, i'm saying that everyones choices are already made for them, all thats left is for you to pick one brand from the winners.

And this is pure, unadulterated BS. Choices are influenced by culture, but they are not made. This view only works from 10,000 feet, and only when focused on narrowly defined sectors of the economy. When you start dealing with individuals and the thousands of choices they make every single day, there is absolutely no way that all of those choices are pre-programmed from without, and especially not by design.

I/we have granted that choices can be influenced, and in some cases heavily so. But it takes far more effort than what is presently happening to influence even a simple majority of those choices.

I'm saying freedoms were only given to us to distract us from the raping of our resource's by multinationals, and now all those good days they promised, with paid retirement are going up in smoke.

This statement completely ignores history. Multinationals are a relatively new phenomenon, perhaps a hundred years old (probably more like 50), and that in that hundred years we have seen the rapid decline of freedom, not a "giving" of freedom. Freedom in America predated multinationals by 150 years or so.

Whatever boogieman you want to blame for you being apathic is ok with me bro.

It is utterly laughable that you would call hornadylnl apathetic.

Sweet, cause a min a go it was a conspiracy theory, and no one believed it cause, we are our own men and no one can influnce our mighty brains was the theme i was getting.

This is the result of your own binary thinking, not the arguments that were made. My initial post stated that I find consumerism overblown as a problem and personal responsibility under-emphasized as a solution. When someone says that a problem is "overblown", it doesn't mean that they don't think it's a problem, just that the problem is being exaggerated in importance or scale.

As for the conspiracy theory part, you're the one who reminded me of it. The essential feature that turns any theory into a conspiracy theory is when it explains everything. If there are no loose ends, and none can exist, and nothing at all is ever explainable outside the basic tenets of the theory proposed, it is a conspiracy theory. We have here 3 pages of posts from you insisting that no behavior is beyond the reach of consumerism, and that makes your version of it a conspiracy theory.

I, and hornadylnl, and others here have stated quite clearly that we believe consumerism does exist and is a problem, but it is most emphatically NOT a problem for all people, and possibly not even for a simple majority -- you even said that it's only 40% of the people that live beyond their means. And yet you continue to insist that ALL consumption is consumerism, and that no one ever makes a choice of their own free will. The reason I just scratched my nose, according to you, is because my parents and friends and culture have conditioned me to scratch my nose. The rest of us are just calling BS on that.

I agree, it's sad that you have given them the power to do that(oh wait, you voted for the other guy right?)

And once again, we're back to "look how smart I am, and how stupid you are". If this is what's necessary for you to feel good about yourself, I feel sorry for you.

 

[JetGirl]

When you start dealing with individuals and the thousands of choices they make every single day, there is absolutely no way that all of those choices are pre-programmed from without, and especially not by design.

Exactly. Back to the bottled water example given by Hornadylnl earlier...I bought a bottle of Nestle Pure Life the other day. Not because I've seen commercials, not because I saw somebody else with one, not because of any other reason than I didn't feel like drinking pop from a can and I didn't feel like driving to some drive through to get water in a paper cup.

I/we have granted that choices can be influenced, and in some cases heavily so.

This is also true. In 2005, I bought my 1911 carry. It was a Kimber...because Fletch made me WANT ONE.

 

[Fletch]

This is also true. In 2005, I bought my 1911 carry. It was a Kimber...because Fletch made me WANT ONE.

And before that, with all of the gun magazines and forums and stores and owners around you, a 1911 probably wasn't even on your radar, to say nothing of a Kimber. Sometimes it is only a particular recommendation that makes the difference, and if that recommendation never comes, the purchase is never made. And sometimes the recommendation, even from someone whose opinion you respect, does nothing to change your mind... I note that, 2 years after the fact, you still have not bought an iPhone, despite my repeated recommendations of same. Consumerism doesn't explain why you would own a gun on my recommendation, a gun which I have shot but never owned BTW, but would not own a phone that I own and use daily and for which I can make a far more detailed and reliable endorsement.

 

[JetGirl]

And before that, with all of the gun magazines and forums and stores and owners around you, a 1911 probably wasn't even on your radar, to say nothing of a Kimber.

True.

Consumerism doesn't explain why you would own a gun on my recommendation, a gun which I have shot but never owned BTW, but would not own a phone that I own and use daily and for which I can make a far more detailed and reliable endorsement.

Consumerism maybe can't explain it...but *I* can.
Silly Fletch! Guns are way cooler than nerdtech!

 

[shooter521]

BTW if your wife wants you to sig up she sounds cool. Have her sign up. We'd rather talk to her.

She's already here...

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...greetings/95313-new_member_from_nwi_here.html

 

[Randall Flagg]

And this is pure, unadulterated BS. Choices are influenced by culture, but they are not made.

And culture is made by men/women of importance or the winners if you will, in the middle east, it would be the religous leaders, in the western world it would of been the rich land owners.

For example, WHO decided that the week day would be from 8-5? surely that was not your choice was it? No that choice was MADE FOR YOU.

I/we have granted that choices can be influenced, and in some cases heavily so. But it takes far more effort than what is presently happening to influence even a simple majority of those choices.

Oh i see the problem, you dont see their effort, so there is no problem. Let me ask you this, who helps finance most of the textbooks in the usa? medical research? research into how the mind works?

You do realize when war of the worlds was played that it was in fact a test to see how people would react, correct?

You do realize people have been involved in research as how to control people/opinions thru the media for close to 100 years now right?

You think they might have figured something out about it by now, and just have not told you?

I know it sounds crazy, but they sometimes dont inform the public of everything they do you know.

This statement completely ignores history. Multinationals are a relatively new phenomenon, perhaps a hundred years old (probably more like 50), and that in that hundred years we have seen the rapid decline of freedom, not a "giving" of freedom. Freedom in America predated multinationals by 150 years or so.

LOL

Surprisingly, there are many companies – including manufacturers, retailers, and service businesses that have surpassed their 100th birthday. At least one company on record is almost 400 years old.

Read more at Suite101: Century-old Companies and Products: Many 100-year-old Businesses Age Gracefully http://business-success-stories.suite101.com/article.cfm/century_old_companies_and_products#ixzz0r7ZHwjmB
​

i wont get into dupont, or the rockerfeller's/rothschild banking business that has been around for 400 years, etc.

lets just say you were wrong and move on shall we?

and that in that hundred years we have seen the rapid decline of freedom, not a "giving" of freedom.

Wait, earlier, you said personal choice and consumerism WAS freedom, are you saying we have less consumer items to choose from then in 1902?

should i laugh now or later?

It stands to reason, if we have more items to choose from, and since choice is freedom, we have more freedom correct?

less freedom would mean less items to choose from right?

This is the result of your own binary thinking, not the arguments that were made. My initial post stated that I find consumerism overblown as a problem and personal responsibility under-emphasized as a solution. When someone says that a problem is "overblown", it doesn't mean that they don't think it's a problem, just that the problem is being exaggerated in importance or scale.

Overblown?

After 9-11, bush told everyone to go shopping.

Overblown....lol

The essential feature that turns any theory into a conspiracy theory is when it explains everything.

A conspiracy by definition can not be explained, not that it explains everything.

i thought i would give you the benefit of the doubt but it seems the people messaging me about you being mr. know it all(without any source proof) were in fact right.

I, and hornadylnl, and others here have stated quite clearly that we believe consumerism does exist and is a problem, but it is most emphatically NOT a problem for all people, and possibly not even for a simple majority -- you even said that it's only 40% of the people that live beyond their means. And yet you continue to insist that ALL consumption is consumerism, and that no one ever makes a choice of their own free will. The reason I just scratched my nose, according to you, is because my parents and friends and culture have conditioned me to scratch my nose. The rest of us are just calling BS on that.

All information that allows us to make choices comes from somewhere/someone.

Take jetgirl's bottled water example, she might drink bottled water because she heard it's good for her, she heard it from her mom growing up, her mom heard from the AMA, who wrote a report about it from a guy named "suchandsuch" who just so happen to own a 37% stake in nestle pure life bottled water company.

Sometimes it is only a particular recommendation that makes the difference, and if that recommendation never comes, the purchase is never made. And sometimes the recommendation, even from someone whose opinion you respect, does nothing to change your mind...

I never said that you hear a tv ad, you go buy the product, you guys starting saying that not me.

Now she bought a kimber because when it comes to guns, cost and names matter/influence most.

Notice the new bandwagon weapon, the ar-15.
​

 

[RachelMarie]

BTW if your wife wants you to sig up she sounds cool. Have her sign up. We'd rather talk to her.

[strike]SemperFiUSMC[/strike]
Viva la Revolucion

I am pretty cool, I must say so myself!

 

[Fletch]

For example, WHO decided that the week day would be from 8-5? surely that was not your choice was it? No that choice was MADE FOR YOU.

I don't know what kind of weirdness you have going on in Indiana, but in Oklahoma our week days go from 12 midnight to 12 midnight, just like the weekend days. How do you deal with having 5 days that are only 9 hours long?

i wont get into dupont, or the rockerfeller's/rothschild banking business that has been around for 400 years, etc.

lets just say you were wrong and move on shall we?

Yeah, let's not forget the Bavarian Illuminati, UFO's, and the Servants of Cthulhu while we're at it.

Wait, earlier, you said personal choice and consumerism WAS freedom, are you saying we have less consumer items to choose from then in 1902?

should i laugh now or later?

It stands to reason, if we have more items to choose from, and since choice is freedom, we have more freedom correct?

Incorrect. The ability to choose (or not choose), without coercion, is freedom. The number of choices available is immaterial.

Overblown?

After 9-11, bush told everyone to go shopping.

And thousands, if not millions, of Americans laughed at him for being so stupid.

Take jetgirl's bottled water example, she might drink bottled water because she heard it's good for her, she heard it from her mom growing up, her mom heard from the AMA, who wrote a report about it from a guy named "suchandsuch" who just so happen to own a 37% stake in nestle pure life bottled water company.

You have proof of this?

Notice the new bandwagon weapon, the ar-15.

Which is easily explainable in the context of the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and what happened in the market for semi-automatic "military-style" rifles. Maybe you were in prison at the time and don't remember what happened, but those of us who visited gun shows and saw the prices skyrocketing remember what it was like. 15-round Glock magazines going for $120, for example (back down to $25 - $30 since the ban's expiration). Most of us are old enough and law-abiding enough to remember what craziness the government introduced to the market, and that is exactly why Obama's election precipitated the greatest gun-buying frenzy the nation has ever seen. A lot of folks wanted to make sure they got one while they still could, because it's a pretty well-known article of faith that everything that comes from Chicago is corrupt and criminal. Gun owners are just looking out for their own interests.

 

[Eddie]

And culture is made by men/women of importance or the winners if you will, in the middle east, it would be the religous leaders, in the western world it would of been the rich land owners.

For example, WHO decided that the week day would be from 8-5? surely that was not your choice was it? No that choice was MADE FOR YOU.




Oh i see the problem, you dont see their effort, so there is no problem. Let me ask you this, who helps finance most of the textbooks in the usa? medical research? research into how the mind works?

You do realize when war of the worlds was played that it was in fact a test to see how people would react, correct?

You do realize people have been involved in research as how to control people/opinions thru the media for close to 100 years now right?

You think they might have figured something out about it by now, and just have not told you?

I know it sounds crazy, but they sometimes dont inform the public of everything they do you know.




LOL

[/color]

i wont get into dupont, or the rockerfeller's/rothschild banking business that has been around for 400 years, etc.

lets just say you were wrong and move on shall we?




Wait, earlier, you said personal choice and consumerism WAS freedom, are you saying we have less consumer items to choose from then in 1902?

should i laugh now or later?

It stands to reason, if we have more items to choose from, and since choice is freedom, we have more freedom correct?

less freedom would mean less items to choose from right?




Overblown?

After 9-11, bush told everyone to go shopping.

Overblown....lol



A conspiracy by definition can not be explained, not that it explains everything.

i thought i would give you the benefit of the doubt but it seems the people messaging me about you being mr. know it all(without any source proof) were in fact right.




All information that allows us to make choices comes from somewhere/someone.

Take jetgirl's bottled water example, she might drink bottled water because she heard it's good for her, she heard it from her mom growing up, her mom heard from the AMA, who wrote a report about it from a guy named "suchandsuch" who just so happen to own a 37% stake in nestle pure life bottled water company.




I never said that you hear a tv ad, you go buy the product, you guys starting saying that not me.

Now she bought a kimber because when it comes to guns, cost and names matter/influence most.

Notice the new bandwagon weapon, the ar-15.
[/left]

You still haven't connected the dots though. You started at "Consumerism needs to be stopped". Then you went to "lots of different things influence our choices" with a stop at "if Consumerism stops the system collapses but that might be good". Now we are at "people who sell things have put a lot of time in studying how people make choices".

What is your core theory? Why is this system "bad"? What would you change to make it "good".

 

[Fletch]

You still haven't connected the dots though. You started at "Consumerism needs to be stopped". Then you went to "lots of different things influence our choices" with a stop at "if Consumerism stops the system collapses but that might be good". Now we are at "people who sell things have put a lot of time in studying how people make choices".

What is your core theory? Why is this system "bad"? What would you change to make it "good".

Yeah, like I said many posts ago, ignore me. Answer Eddie's question.

 

[Fletch]

i thought i would give you the benefit of the doubt but it seems the people messaging me about you being mr. know it all(without any source proof) were in fact right.

You (and they, whoever they are) are once again invited to use the ignore feature. Allow me to repeat the instructions, for those that may have missed them:

If you click my name and then "view public profile", you'll wind up on my user page. Once there, you'll see my name again, with a link below it called "user lists". Click this, and in the resulting menu click "add to ignore list".

Problem solved!

 

[Randall Flagg]

What is your core theory?

That we have been engineered to fail, that after 1700 years man figured out he could not rule the world by force so instead he turned to coercion thru the use of money.

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild

Why is this system "bad"?

This picture says it all i hope.

What would you change to make it "good".

We are past that point now, prepare and hope and pray you and your loved ones can make it thru.

good luck to you sir.

 

[Fletch]

That we have been engineered to fail, that after 1700 years man figured out he could not rule the world by force so instead he turned to coercion thru the use of money.

I would say that force is still being used quite heavily, and moreso every day. The Federal Reserve would not exist without the force of government maintaining it and demanding that we use its counterfeit currency. That the force is less overt than in times past does not mean that it no longer exists.

This picture says it all i hope.

The picture explains why the system is bad, but it does not explain how government debt and consumer debt are connected, or even if they are. It does not link consumerism to the problem.

We are past that point now, prepare and hope and pray you and your loved ones can make it thru.

You've given no indication that any sort of "preparation" is likely to be efficacious. What sort of preparation would you recommend, that the members here are not already doing?

 

[JetGirl]

Take jetgirl's bottled water example, she might drink bottled water because she heard it's good for her, she heard it from her mom growing up, her mom heard from the AMA, who wrote a report about it from a guy named "suchandsuch" who just so happen to own a 37% stake in nestle pure life bottled water company.

OR...it was because she just wanted water because anything sugary just didn't sound good to her...and it was the closest bottle.

Now she bought a kimber because when it comes to guns, cost and names matter/influence most.

Nah...it was just the shiniest.
You might think I'm kiddin'...but just ask around.

 

[JetGirl]

I am pretty cool, I must say so myself!

You let him post? On the intarwebz? What happened to shoving him into one of those blue barrels?
Did you let him take a laptop in there??

 

[RachelMarie]

You let him post? On the intarwebz? What happened to shoving him into one of those blue barrels?
Did you let him take a laptop in there??

Heh. I told ya the blue barrels didn't work. He got out in no time, with a bit more 'tude behind him. Who ever gave me the barrel idea, it was a bad one....
Nah...just messin'. Honestly, I asked him here. He didn't want to at first but I talked him into it. There is a fine line with Randall Flagg, either you hate 'em or you love 'em. Either way, niether of us give a rats azz.

He does come off harsh at times...but I think most of that has to do with flat text. And he just likes arguing, or so it seems. (He too is on day 3 of non smoking as well, so that has him a bit edgy)

I still love the crap right out of him!

 

[JetGirl]

I still love the crap right out of him!

That sounds kinda messy.

No, you may not borrow my tarps.

 

[RachelMarie]

That sounds kinda messy.

No, you may not borrow my tarps.

We ooze love!

 

[jsgolfman]

If you understand the history of banking, you know that coercion through the use of "money" has coexisted with force since the institution of the concept of "money". It's never been an either/or type of relationship.