Copying an LTCH (License to carry a hangun) redux

[Scutter01]

Wouldn't it be easier if they just put a ccw endorsment on your drivers license similar to a motorcycle license? I agree there should be somthing better than a pice of paper. At least card stock?

There have already been lots of discussions about tying your LTCH to your driver's license. The general consensus is that is not something we want. I certainly don't want it.

 

[ElkhartGunner]

When I got my LTCH, I went to staples and had 12 copies made and laminated. I put them all in a stack and had my wife try to pick the original. She picked 4 of the copies before she picked the original. Staples has the exact same color paper so I doubt a LEO would be able to tell either.

 

[dburkhead]

When I got my LTCH, I went to my office and scanned the original into a PDF file at 600 dpi (best that scanner could do). I've got a copy of that file on two computers at two different locations as well as burned to disk.

Any time I need a copy I can just stick pink paper in the printer and I'm good to go.

 

[indytechnerd]

Question:

Do you copy and laminate the full 8.5x11 paper then cut the wallet card out, or do you copy, cut, laminate, or do you cut, copy, laminate?

I'll be doing one of the 3 tomorrow and would really like to know the best way before I go.

 

[Scutter01]

Question:

Do you copy and laminate the full 8.5x11 paper then cut the wallet card out, or do you copy, cut, laminate, or do you cut, copy, laminate?

I'll be doing one of the 3 tomorrow and would really like to know the best way before I go.

I laminated my own and my laminator won't do full-sized sheets of paper, so I cut mine out first.

 

[kludge]

I just wish they would make it the right size to fit in a card slot like everything else...

I'm all for putting the endorsement on your driver's license, or at least taking your pink paper to the BMV and them making a LTCH with your picture on it, they're already set up to do that, it just makes sense to me. Then all the cop has to do is look you up on the computer, but we get into the whole discussion of disclosure on a traffic stop, which lots of people, including myself, have a problem with.

 

[indytechnerd]

For the Record:

Staples at SR267&US40 in Plainfield will NOT copy a LTCH. The verbage I got was "you are creating a new original of the license" and likened it to copying a driver's license.

The FedEx/Kinko's (that I wasn't aware of until I left Staples) right in the same area had no problems copying the license, reducing 1 copy to 93%, and laminating the signed copy. Total for 2 full size copies, 1 reduced copy and a lamination: $1.72. The verbage from the Kinko's guy was "There's nothing on it that says you can't copy it"

As for the 'something better than pink paper' discussion. I'd like to see the equivalent to the way my wife's nursing licenses and such come from the Professional Licensing Agency. It's heavier card stock, and the perforated/cut out section is about the size of a standard business card. Much more wallet friendly.

 

[Rookie]

Staples in Kokomo is the same way. The lady tried to inform me that it was a federal document and it was against the law to copy it. I asked her where I could find paper that matched the license, and she pointed it out to me. I went home and did it myself.

 

[cordex]

How much does it cost to get a new copy from the State Police? That way I could make a bunch of copies, and store them in my safe.

The cost to get a duplicate license from the State Police is $20.

Duplicates from the self-service copier at Kinkos are $0.09 before tax. Not that they are necessarily legal versions of the license ... (depending on who you ask).

 

[rcuhljr]

Fedex/Kinko's refused to copy mine, they would only copy it to white paper and enlarge it 25%. Going to a local print shop tomorrow over lunch, but it's still annoying.

 

[CarmelHP]

No, she said that because she knows she could not prosecute it as long as you had been issued and possessed a still valid license.

IC 35-47-2-24
Indictment or information; defendant's burden to prove exemption or license; arrest, effect of production of valid license, or establishment of exemption

(b) Whenever a person who has been arrested or charged with a violation of section 1 of this chapter presents a valid license to the prosecuting attorney or establishes that he is exempt under section 2 of this chapter, any prosecution for a violation of section 1 of this chapter shall be dismissed immediately, and all records of an arrest or proceedings following arrest shall be destroyed immediately.

The only section that prescribes any possible crime is this:

IC 35-47-2-22
Use of unlawful handgun-carrying license to obtain handgun prohibited
Sec. 22. It is unlawful for any person to use, or to attempt to use, a false, counterfeit, spurious, or altered handgun-carrying license to obtain a handgun contrary to the provisions of this chapter.
and then only if used to procure a handgun to circumvent the requirements of the law.

Proving that the specific license you are carrying is a copy, and making a case against you in court (assuming that was the only violation you are accused of) would be the difficult points which is probably a large part of why Mrs. Baldwin stated she wouldn't prosecute such a case.

 

[RealtorWhoCarries]

Thanks, it look slike we need to start building a file with some of these quotes and carry it around in my car for when i get stopped. Amazing how they can all be on a different page.. Thanks for sharing.

 

[cordex]

RealtorWhoCarries,
I'm not sure that having these quotes handy would help in any way. First of all, the information that I obtained is not in any way legally binding, nor is it legal advice. Secondly, bringing up the issue of a copied license while pulled over is probably a good way to make yourself a big steaming pile of trouble. If you don't bring it up and your copy isn't on 12x18 glossy chartreuse card stock, chances are fantastic that the issue will never come up.

If, for some reason, you are arrested by a by-the-books officer interested in busting people for a copied permit, throwing quotes at the officer isn't going to help. As Kirk would say: Eddie Haskell up. Do as the officer says, be polite and when you get the chance get the original permit to present as CarmelHP points out. If you don't have access your original, then call a lawyer.

 

[jdhaines]

It seems to me that a driver's license is a real thing with real information on it. A LTCH is a piece of paper with a license number and you're information. It doesn't even have to be correct. My license has my address from like 2 years ago on it, and it's still valid. If you had anything with your license number on it, and the police had some way of calling / checking that the license is valid all should be well. That said, I'm always going to have my pink license on me, but it doesn't seem to serve the same purpose as a IN DL.

 

[XDs4me]

Here it is and a copy is not a licensed issued. A good prosecuter will argue that point, especially one who is anti gun. Is it worth losing your license and incurring legal fees over?



IC 35-47-2-1
Carrying a handgun without a license or by person convicted of domestic battery
Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the person's dwelling, on the person's property or fixed place of business, without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possession.

 

[jeremy]

Here it is and a copy is not a licensed issued. A good prosecuter will argue that point, especially one who is anti gun. Is it worth losing your license and incurring legal fees over

Can you prove that it IS NOT the original?

This argument is past being senseless...

 

[Mikeh82]

I dont see the big deal.. To get a perfectly legal copy all you have to do is pay $20.. When that is done there will be no question that you are legal. I think the $20 is worth not having your time waisted by a cop having a bad day and wanting something to bitch about or even being arrested. Who cares if they clear your name after the being locked up? By the time you pay to get your car out of impound you could have bought 10 copies of the LTCH.. Im just saying its kind of crazy.. Considering how much most of us spend on guns and ammo, what is another 20 bucks going to hurt?

 

[Bill of Rights]

Here it is and a copy is not a licensed issued. A good prosecuter will argue that point, especially one who is anti gun. Is it worth losing your license and incurring legal fees over?



IC 35-47-2-1
Carrying a handgun without a license or by person convicted of domestic battery
Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the person's dwelling, on the person's property or fixed place of business, without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possession.

Keep reading.

IC 35-47-2-24
Indictment or information; defendant's burden to prove exemption or license; arrest, effect of production of valid license, or establishment of exemption
Sec. 24. (a)... (deleted for brevity)
(b) Whenever a person who has been arrested or charged with a violation of section 1 of this chapter presents a valid license to the prosecuting attorney or establishes that he is exempt under section 2 of this chapter, any prosecution for a violation of section 1 of this chapter shall be dismissed immediately, and all records of an arrest or proceedings following arrest shall be destroyed immediately.

I read this to mean you can carry a copy, as long as you can show that you do hold a valid LTCH. Keep the original in a safe place. The copy can be replaced. IANAL.

I just hope they don't change license formats prior to my Lifetime being issued in early 2010.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Mikeh82]

I could honestly care less about what happens after I get arrested.. The point is I dont want to be arrested..

 

[jeremy]

And once again I will ask if I had you copy on pink paper can you tell the difference? I can not and probably no one outside of an extremely well funded lab can not either.