Denied Purchase

[Bunnykid68]

Just to let you know ...you may wanna get the address corrected with the state on you LTCH also .....
I'm thinking its kinda useless with the now wrong addy on it also

Do this first.

 

[Stainer]

Just to let you know ...you may wanna get the address corrected with the state on you LTCH also .....
I'm thinking its kinda useless with the now wrong addy on it also

Definitely should ensure that you send the form off to ISP, while you do not need to possess an updated LTCH that has your current address, you must update it in ISP's system.

LTCH should be enough to walk right out the door IMHO!!

This is your opinion, and certainly not mine. I have run into a large number of people who possess a LTCH and should not for a disqualifying reason. Never occurred a counterfeit one, but have heard they have been found too. So unfortunately I disagree.

I was also once denied to buy a handgun because my address was out of date, since then, I have always gone and changed it within a week of moving. Good luck!

 

[superjoe76]

I am assuming that since you moved your wife has the same wrong address on her license as well? If not, then you spent $10 to update hers so whats another $10?

Still sucks about the time wasted.

 

[nate1865]

The rules are the rules. I sympathize with the OP, but for every legitimate case like his there are probably dozens that are not. The store owner can't tell the difference, and it isn't within his rights to work around the system. I imagine all of us would be upset if we asked a shop owner to bend the rules for us only to see the ATF use that as ammunition to shut him down.

 

[dom1104]

Some of you guys, are really, really cheap.

Seriously.


Pay the skrilla, get your gun.

 

[pinshooter45]

MC sports was Wrong!

Purchasing a firearm for a member of your immediate family to give as a gift is not a "STRAW" purchase. I have clearly stated to the owners of several shops that I am purchasing a firearm for my 2 sons and Wife on several occasions never had a problem!

 

[thumperdogg]

Let me clarify a little...

I was a little frustrated last night when I wrote this. Most importantly I will give a +1 to the guy at MC Sports as well for doing his job and let me add I was VERY POLITE to him through the whole situation. Like I said I know it is not his fault, he was doing exactly what he was supposed to do. I told him thanks for his time and I will try to get to the license branch sometime this week. I would never take out my frustration on someone who is following the rules just because I don't agree with them. I just wanted to make it clear through this whole ordeal, I was calm and very respectful. Also my LTCH is current with the correct address as well as my car registration. My DL is the last thing to get updated and is a hassle. (long lines) I was unawre that it is only $10 for a DL update. I am not cheap, it's just one of those things that easily gets overlooked.

Aside all of that, I will get my DL updated and get back on track. Thanks to all replies!

 

[MACHINEGUN]

And all this just to save $10.. hope it was worth it!

 

[Sylvain]

Purchasing a firearm for a member of your immediate family to give as a gift is not a "STRAW" purchase. I have clearly stated to the owners of several shops that I am purchasing a firearm for my 2 sons and Wife on several occasions never had a problem!

I heard that too from a gun dealer, that buying a gun for a spouse is legal.
Other than that I believe you have to buy the gun for yourself.

 

[wabash]

sort of on topic,............. does the ID used have to have an address?

military IDs and passports do not show an address

 

[thumperdogg]

And all this just to save $10.. hope it was worth it!

It wasn't to save $10, it was an oversight on my part. No one had ever brought it to my attention and I forgot to change it.

 

[Aszerigan]

I heard that too from a gun dealer, that buying a gun for a spouse is legal.

Who told you that?

 

[Cannon]

Wow, I did not know the addy needed to match. Putting that back in the memory banks.

 

[Gamez235]

Who told you that?

Question l.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form. You are the actual transferee/buyer if you arc purchasing the firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn retrieving it from consignment. firearm raffle winner). You are the actual transferee/buyer if you arc legitimately purchasing the firearm as a gift for a third party(1). ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER EXAMPLES: Mr.
Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT THE ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER of the firearm and must answer "NO" to question I La. The licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown goes to buy a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a present. Brown is the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm and should answer "YES" to question ll.a. However, you may not transfer a firearm to any person you know or have reasonable cause to believe is prohibited under 18 U.S.c. § 922(g), (n), or (x). Please note: EXCEPTION: If you are picking up a repaired firearm(s) for another person. you are not required to answer


(1) Yes, if you are purchasing a firearms as a gift for a "non-prohibited" or a person whom could purchase the firearm legally themselves, according to the 4473 it is not a straw purchase.

So if I wanted to purchase a firearm for my spouse, as long as she herself could purchase a firearm, it would not be considered a straw purchase.


According to the BATFE the definition of a Straw purchase is;

"A straw purchase is any purchase from a dealer holding a FFL where the buyer conducting the transaction is acting as a proxy for another person"

So by the OP not having a a valid government ID without the proper address listed he is now a "prohibited person" and if his wife completed the sale it would have been a straw purchase.


For more reading... ATF FFL Reference Handbook pg. 165

15. STRAW PURCHASES
Questions have arisen concerning the lawfulness of firearms purchases from licensees by persons who use a "straw purchaser" (another person) to acquire the firearms. Specifically, the actual buyer uses the straw purchaser to execute the Form 4473 purporting to show that the straw purchaser is the actual purchaser of the firearm. In some in- stances, a straw purchaser is used be- cause the actual purchaser is prohibited from acquiring the firearm. That is to say, the actual purchaser is a felon or is within one of the other prohibited categories of persons who may not lawfully acquire firearms or is a resident of a State other than that in which the licensee's business premises is located. Because of his or her disability, the per- son uses a straw purchaser who is not prohibited from purchasing a firearm from the licensee. In other instances, neither the straw purchaser nor the ac- tual purchaser is prohibited from acquiring the firearm.

In both instances, the straw purchaser violates Federal law by making false statements on Form 4473 to the licensee with respect to the identity of the actual purchaser of the firearm, as well as the actual purchaser's residence address and date of birth. The actual purchaser who utilized the straw pur- chaser to acquire a firearm has unlawfully aided and abetted or caused the making of the false statements. The licensee selling the firearm under these circumstances also violates Federal law if the licensee is aware of the false statements on the form. It is immaterial that the actual purchaser and the straw purchaser are residents of the State in which the licensee's business premises is located, are not prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms, and could have lawfully purchased firearms from the licensee.
An example of an illegal straw purchase is as follows:

Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. If Mr. Jones fills out Form 4473, he violates the law by falsely stating that he is the actual buyer of the firearm. Mr. Smith also violates the law because he has unlawfully aided and abetted or caused the making of false statements on the form.

Where a person purchases a firearm with the intent of making a gift of the firearm to another person, the person making the purchase is indeed the true purchaser. There is no straw purchaser in these instances. In the above example, if Mr. Jones had bought a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Smith as a birthday present, Mr. Jones could lawfully have completed Form 4473. The use of gift certificates would also not fall within the category of straw purchases. The person redeeming the gift certificate would be the actual purchaser of the firearm and would be properly reflected as such in the dealer's records."

 

[CSORuger]

That was my first thought. Have you corrected your address on your LTCH? That one could get you in deep doo doo if you carry.

This was what I was thinking, also.

 

[thumperdogg]

BMV will not allow me to update my add on my DL cause I have no utility bills or hospital bills in my name? WTF? My add on my registration is correct!! USC without a paddle!

 

[schmeed]

I would understand completing the app and getting a rejection, then not allowing her to do so, but I was not denied, just didn't have the proper credintials.

LTCH should be enough to walk right out the door IMHO!!

Rules are rules. Frankly, the dope at MC Sports should have asked for your DL as you were filling out the application and immediately noticed that your addresses didn't match.

Don't forget, the BATF could be that "man and wife" who are trying to do an illegal strawman purchase and catch the shop in the act. It has happened and will continue happening the future. One illegal sale is all it takes to close down MC Sports and I'm sure they don't want that.

Sorry for your trouble...

 

[Sylvain]

BMV will not allow me to update my add on my DL cause I have no utility bills or hospital bills in my name? WTF? My add on my registration is correct!! USC without a paddle!

If you want we can meet and I could help you get some hospital bill in your name.
I can do a clean job with a baseball bat.

If you have troubles and found a good deal just send your wife get the gun.
I dont know why she couldn't buy it in the first place since that wouldn't be a straw purchase if you already bought guns for yourself legally in the past.

 

[hooky]

BMV will not allow me to update my add on my DL cause I have no utility bills or hospital bills in my name? WTF? My add on my registration is correct!! USC without a paddle!

A bank statement and pay stubs should work as your LTCH if it has the correct address.

http://www.in.gov/bmv/2770.htm

 

[pinshooter45]

I heard that too from a gun dealer, that buying a gun for a spouse is legal.
Other than that I believe you have to buy the gun for yourself.

Was just down at Bradis purchasing Ammo for NFA Day. And A similar situation occurred. And What I heard them say is that ATF allows you to purchase a firearm as a gift for your Immediate Family. That basically means spouse, son or daughter, living in the same house. I also think you could buy for a grandchild. But brother or sister, cousin probably not, Because It was explained to me one time that the person has to be a "Direct descendant" to be covered by the rule.