Enhanced Interrogation- from a guy who did it, and saved a lot of lives

[Jludo]

I particularly liked the discussion of being seconded guessed by soccer moms in the Whole Foods parking lot who hold opinions with no knowledge or experience regarding what actually went on, what was done, or the useful information that was obtained. If not a Whole Foods parking lot, perhaps an online forum.

By that logic do you get to share your opinion on the subject?

 

[spencer rifle]

Not from me. I hold the opinion that is the way it should be, but most people here, I think disagree.

“The Constitution and U.S. laws are not a treaty with the universe; they protect U.S. citizens.” - Former attorney general Michael Mukasey

 

[jamil]

Listened to it. I had seen him a few times with shorter segments on various FNC shows. Personally, I think he is an American hero and should be listened to carefully.

I'm going to listen to the podcast on my way to work. Generally though, I'd like to hear both sides of it. General Mattis seems to be a guy we all think of highly. A hero. It seems he has a different opinion, but I'd need to look into that more.

But before listening, my thoughts are that if "enhanced interrogation" is indeed affective, I have no problem using it on people who have used aggression against us. That doesn't make us like them when we were attacked unprovoked, and we're using it to protect ourselves from further attacks.

 

[HoughMade]

By that logic do you get to share your opinion on the subject?

Not if my opinion states as fact things I have no way of knowing like: "enhanced interrogation never gets useful information." I have no way of knowing that and no one who does not know exactly what went on and what information was obtained does either.

Anyone can have an opinion about whether or not they "like" the tactics employed or whether they should be used.

 

[halfmileharry]

This country and the peaceful world are being targeted and attacked by the most ruthless and dangerous people on earth.
There's NO bargaining, talks, appeasement that will change that.
This is like the movie.. "Independence Day" and they just want us to die. We must prevail and fight them with the most ruthless means at our disposal.
Sorry IF I offend anyone with this outlook.

 

[HoughMade]

This country and the peaceful world are being targeted and attacked by the most ruthless and dangerous people on earth.
There's NO bargaining, talks, appeasement that will change that.
This is like the movie.. "Independence Day" and they just want us to die. We must prevail and fight them with the most ruthless means at our disposal.
Sorry IF I offend anyone with this outlook.

Those who would destroy us are counting on people being offended by your assessment.

 

[Jludo]

Not if my opinion states as fact things I have no way of knowing like: "enhanced interrogation never gets useful information." I have no way of knowing that and no one who does not know exactly what went on and what information was obtained does either.

Anyone can have an opinion about whether or not they "like" the tactics employed or whether they should be used.

Ahh well I have no way of knowing how much knowledge soccer moms at whole foods may have on the subject or if they even discuss the subject but I know those of us on the forum have access to the same information from which to draw conclusions.

 

[halfmileharry]

Ahh well I have no way of knowing how much knowledge soccer moms at whole foods may have on the subject or if they even discuss the subject but I know those of us on the forum have access to the same information from which to draw conclusions.

Damn, I always thought I was smarter than a soccer mom.
I can't believe every one gets the same information to draw conclusions from.

 

[jamil]

Not if my opinion states as fact things I have no way of knowing like: "enhanced interrogation never gets useful information." I have no way of knowing that and no one who does not know exactly what went on and what information was obtained does either.

Anyone can have an opinion about whether or not they "like" the tactics employed or whether they should be used.

Yeah, but isn't it more difficult to reconcile that with this?

"I particularly liked the discussion of being seconded guessed by soccer moms in the Whole Foods parking lot who hold opinions with no knowledge or experience regarding what actually went on, what was done, or the useful information that was obtained. If not a Whole Foods parking lot, perhaps an online forum."

The statement only talks about soccar moms in Whole Foods parking lots/internet forums holding opinions with no knowledge or experience. What real world knowledge do any of us have, except what we get from the "experts" who we believe have this knowledge? I'm not saying we don't have a right to believe our preferred expert. But there are experts on both sides saying different things.

You found one you choose to believe. The soccer moms have one they choose to believe. You, for believing YOUR expert, are no more knowledgable than the soccer moms are for believing theirs. So if you're going to argue inexperienced to inexperienced, you can only argue that your expert is better than theirs. Usually those kinds of arguments belong on playgrounds. But there are adult forms of that. It is essentially the global warming debate, and apparently this one.

And for the record, we sometimes shop at whole foods--cheapest place I can get tea tree oil soap. Indiucky and GFGT could probably vouch that I don't look like I belong in a Whole Foods, in a store where body pierced skinny people who don't bathe, are in a given isle stocking shelves. But I've never seen any soccer moms talking in the parking lot, other than when an iphone is plastered to their faces. They seem kinda snooty. The whole Whole Foods experience makes me want to wear a "Make America Great Again" hat while open carrying, and watch all the multi-pierced multi-gendered, virtue signaling no-makeup heads explode. Well, sometimes makeup. Seems the Whole Foods women don't wear makeup but the men do. Wierd.

 

[jamil]

Damn, I always thought I was smarter than a soccer mom.
I can't believe every one gets the same information to draw conclusions from.

They don't. They get information from experts who confirm what they want it to be. I leaned more towards enhanced interrogation works. As I said, I'm okay with it if it works and we didn't start it. But then I hear General Mattis, whom I respect, isn't all that down with it. So I have to start rethinking things and try to decide which knowledgeable person I believe.

 

[Jludo]

Damn, I always thought I was smarter than a soccer mom.
I can't believe every one gets the same information to draw conclusions from.

I'm more than happy to learn from someone with a unique insight on the subject.

 

[HoughMade]

I found a guy who used enhanced interrogation techniques and gave specific examples of the intelligence obtained and what was thwarted.

I will listen to any evidence others have that refute that the information was obtained or the incidents thwarted.

What I won't consider, from any "expert" is conclusory statements that don't actually refute specific statements of fact. If they present contradictory facts, then I'll have something to consider.

 

[jamil]

I found a guy who used enhanced interrogation techniques and gave specific examples of the intelligence obtained and what was thwarted.

I will listen to any evidence others have that refute that the information was obtained or the incidents thwarted.

What I won't consider, from any "expert" is conclusory statements that don't actually refute specific statements of fact. If they present contradictory facts, then I'll have something to consider.

That seems reasonable.

 

[jamil]

Okay, I've had a chance to listen to this. I have to say it was very interesting. I'd like to see him debate the best prepared person on the other side of it. But at this point I think I lean towards enhanced interrogation for a narrow set of circumstances. It sounds like KSM gave up a lot of vital info, and it wasn't because we gave him dates and peanuts and fluffed his pillows.

But of course, it's a guy whose reputation depends on his methods being successful saying stuff on a podcast. Who knows how much is true and how much isn't. I can't verify it independently. I just have to trust what he's saying. And as I said, it's pretty compelling. And it's what i want to believe.

 

[actaeon277]

Did someone mention soccer moms

 

[jamil]

I think we need a hot soccer moms with guns thread.

 

[jedi]

But.. But.. Can they cook?

 

[actaeon277]

But.. But.. Can they cook?

I got girls that can cook

[video=youtube;k2GBQqSKl8w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2GBQqSKl8w[/video]

 

[Fargo]

Love it or hate it, let's call it what it is instead of this bs PC "enhanced interrogation" word game.

I am not necessarily diametrically opposed to it, but I am absolutely opposed to pretending it is one thing when we all know damn well what it really is.

If we really want to have a serious discussion about this, I suggest we dispense with the lie that this is something other than torture.

 

[KittySlayer]

If we really want to have a serious discussion about this, I suggest we dispense with the lie that this is something other than torture.

Does it make a difference if it is torture with a purpose and in a controlled environment as opposed to what we saw in Chicago with torture for amusement and social status?

I do agree, the PC "enhanced interrogation" makes it easy for the politicians to discuss an uncomfortable topic. Much like they cleanse the conversation of brave men dying when discussing war.