Federal Form 4473 Revision Forces Some People to LIE.

[IndyGunSafety]

That's the same document that the ATF guy in Indy faxed to us; did your shop not get a copy of it with the new forms, either?

We didn't get the FAQ either. And I have torn half of the front page off just taking a form from the stack and laying it before the customer!

 

[JetGirl]

Why is Hispanic so important to clarify?

Really good question.

 

[Scutter01]

This was covered in the letter and FAQ that accompanied the new 4473

The ATF has a FAQ!?

 

[JetGirl]

The ATF has a FAQ!?

Ha!! Awesome.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

What's the confusion?

Hispanic heritage can entail many races.

 

[JetGirl]

What's the confusion?

Hispanic heritage can entail many races.

Well, so can OTHER "ethnicity"... why is *this* one more equal than the other animals??

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Because of the confusion that you cite in the OP.

"Hispanic" is an umbrella term for many peoples from Spain, Portugal, South and Central America, many different races and ethnicities.

Hispanic is more prevelant today because of immigration and native population growth among this subset of the population.

(Not saying this South Africanesque obession that .gov has with race is right just explaining).

 

[GaDawg]

Tell me again why they're asking for race on the 4473?

Duh PROFILING! U know cause all Hispanics r Mexican Gang Bangers and Drug Lords. Dang

 

[JetGirl]

Because of the confusion that you cite in the OP.

"Hispanic" is an umbrella term for many peoples from Spain, Portugal, South and Central America, many different races and ethnicities.

Hispanic is more prevelant today because of immigration and native population growth among this subset of the population.

(Right saying this South Africanesque obession that .gov has with race is right just explaining).

So along with that ^, let me get this straight...

In the "what's really important" category vs the "meh, we can live without it" boxes...it goes down like this;

Height= VERY IMPORTANT (even though it will change as you age)
Weight= YOU BET IMPORTANT (even though it can vastly fluctuate)
Ethnicity/Race = YEP, PUT IT ON THERE!! (even if you're a mutt and don't really know what to put)
Social Security Number = Meh...optional.

Well, that makes perfect sense now.

 

[OEF5]

So as of July 9th, FFLs had to start using a new version of the 4473. One difference (the main one, really) is that “race” is now split into two fields. Question 10a is “Hispanic or Latino” or “NOT Hispanic or Latino”. Question 10b goes on to the other options like “Asian, Black, White,” etc…
Tonight a guy came in and did paperwork on a Kel Tec and for 10a he checked “Hispanic or Latino” because that’s what he is. When I called it in, the Call Center Rep asked what was answered on 10a, so I said “Hispanic or Latino”. Fine.
Then she asked for the answer of 10b… I replied “Nothing.”
She said, “10b is a required field. We can not proceed.” I said, “Well, the customer IS Hispanic and nothing else applies. What is he supposed to do?”
I was quickly shuffled to customer service who told me that in the required field, if nothing else applied, the applicant had to mark “White”.
I said, “But he’s Hispanic…not White”. She got really snippy with me and said if I had a complaint, I needed to call my local ATF field agent and lodge my complaint (which my boss will be doing tomorrow).
Basically, from here on out all data collected for Hispanics that do not claim any other race, will fall under being “White”.
How do ya like that?

It's not just this, it's all Federal Race reporting now. The agency I work for collects it the same way, Hispanic or Other...I don't know why but that's how they switched it. There used to also be a "Multi Race", that's gone so to report that you just select more than one race

 

[nomadicmutt]

I have had friends decide that they are black, despite being white (and in one case Asian) and fill out all government forms that way.

And do you know what happened?

Nothing.

Turns out you actually can decide what race you identify with, just like how you can decide what sex you identify with.

Someone tried to call them out on it once, and their reply was "prove it! Prove that I'm not black!" and they could not "prove" the ethnicity.

 

[Scutter01]

Prove that I'm not black!" and they could not "prove" the ethnicity.

You can't prove a negative. You can only prove a positive.

 

[Jack Burton]

I have had friends decide that they are black, despite being white (and in one case Asian) and fill out all government forms that way.

And do you know what happened?

Nothing.

Turns out you actually can decide what race you identify with, just like how you can decide what sex you identify with.

Someone tried to call them out on it once, and their reply was "prove it! Prove that I'm not black!" and they could not "prove" the ethnicity.

In about 75, when I was working in Navy personnel at a base in Okinawa the Navy decided they were going to do a race and ethinic survey of the entire service.

The two major parts of the instructions were that the member choose their own category, and their choice was not to be questioned by anyone, up to and including the commanding officer.

I was the person collecting the forms for the base. You can imagine the diversity of groups that we managed to accumulate. I must have counted at least 50 Eskimos that were previouisly unknown to me. That was just the least of the way this was screwed up.

But I am sure in some file in DC there is a report showing that in the mid-70s about 1/3 of the Navy was made up of Eskimos, and the other 2/3 was split between a couple of dozen other groups.

 

[Ted]

In 2020, the BATFE will take over the Census.

 

[Ted]

You can't prove a negative. You can only prove a positive.

I can prove that it didn't snow in Indianapolis this morning.

 

[Scutter01]

I can prove that it didn't snow in Indianapolis this morning.

I don't think you can.

 

[GTM]

Does this have anything to do with the Trayvon Martin White/Hispanic bruhaha???

No. The Trayvon Martin shooting happened Feb 26, which is 5 months ago. The government doesn't move that fast.

 

[DownByTheTracks]

...and a small corner of my brain chirped, "because George Zimmerman is not a Hispanic, he's a WHITE Hispanic."

QFT.

 

[hoosierdaddy1976]

You can't prove a negative. You can only prove a positive.

1 - 5 = -4. the bank has proven it to me occasionally through the years.

i guess actually, according to the bank, 1 - 5 = -34

 

[Titanium_Frost]

1 - 5 = -4. the bank has proven it to me occasionally through the years.

i guess actually, according to the bank, 1 - 5 = -34