Firing Squad

[AlVine]

Why not an O2 mask with nitrogen instead. One breath and your dead. Guess SC chose a good 2nd choice.

Say what? We're breathing about 79% nitrogen right now, simply removing the O2 would definitely kill you but it would be by asphyxiation and take about three minutes to lose consciousness, then a few more minutes until brain death.

 

[BugI02]

Again, appeals are based on legal/procedural error not "tough childhood" etc already. How long do you give the appeals window? A single appeal can take years to get through the courts. Just how important is it to get this right? You can't get a "I'm sorry but we made a mistake." after they are dead.

If someone murdered a family member of yours and the evidence was solid, how long would you want to wait to 'get it right'?

Also, I'm sure I'm using the term 'appeals' more loosely than the pedantic version of its meaning. I am referring to such cases as the type where an actual appeal to a higher court of a death penalty verdict is based on such cases as Atkins v Virginia, where SCOTUS restricted execution of the so-called 'retarded' but failed to tightly define the term, leading to efforts to 'creatively' interpret a defendant's
mental acuity to fit purely as a way to absolve him (or her) without regard to guilt - hence why I favor the 'guilty but [insane, retarded etc] because it should make no difference to the punishment unless the defendant can arguably be presented as unable to distinguish what he did as wrong

I should think 2 years from first appearance in court on the charge that led to the death penalty should be sufficient. That should encourage the defense not only to seek a speedy trial but also strive to raise all issues early in the proceedings
rather than dole them out slowly in repetitive 'appeals' to keep a perp alive as long as possible seemingly not because they actually believe he is innocent but because they just don't like the death penalty

I will focus on one of the few hard numbers in the following cited article. It is quite possible you will not, and the article contains many estimates that you can focus on with such formulations as 'It is believed ...' or 'It is estimated ...' or 'Up to [a certain percentage of something] is ['believed' or 'thought to be'] which are again inexact numbers without cited provenance, but this is the one I paid attention to:

21 Wrongfully Convicted Death Penalty Statistics

Executing an innocent person for a crime they did not commit is the greatest travesty of any legal system in existence right now. As of March 2014, there have been 144 total convictions that have

brandongaille.com

8. Since 1973, 144 people on death row have been exonerated accounting for just 1.6 percent.

Just under 150 people in 50 years in a country of 300+ million people - on average 3 per year. I certainly expect you to argue that even 3 is too many, but a rational man should know that perfection is an absolute and therefore unobtainable

 

[Leadeye]

Ammunition is still cheaper than anything else used. I'm sure government will figure out a way for firing squads to cost 10's of thousands of dollars.

Rope.

 

[CJM]

I agree with gassing for executions, just think that carbon monoxide should be the gas used.
It's faster, as it bonds with the hemoglobin in the blood, which nitrogen doesn't; and because of the bonding action it prevents the person from feeling that they are being asphyxiated, which still happens with nitrogen. Carbon monoxide just forces you to go asleep and then die.
Just less for the anti-execution people to complain about when they try to prevent executions.

 

[manifest destiny]

The show on cable 'Lockup: Raw' had a scene discussing life in prison v. execution. The basic premise was both convicts are going to die in prison; is there really a difference? It was an interesting viewpoint. As to a firing squad, I was told that multiple marksmen all took aim but only one of them had a live round while the others had blanks. This was to prevent knowing who actually executed (shot) the guilty. I don't know if that's true but I can imagine the mental toll it would take to be an executioner regarless of the method used.

 

[ditcherman]

The show on cable 'Lockup: Raw' had a scene discussing life in prison v. execution. The basic premise was both convicts are going to die in prison; is there really a difference? It was an interesting viewpoint. As to a firing squad, I was told that multiple marksmen all took aim but only one of them had a live round while the others had blanks. This was to prevent knowing who actually executed (shot) the guilty. I don't know if that's true but I can imagine the mental toll it would take to be an executioner regarless of the method used.

Plenty here seem ready to go.
Beginning of this thread was making me think of “The running man”.

 

[Brad69]

The Army Had This Certified Psychopath Hang Condemned Nazis — And He Made Them Suffer

U.S. Army hangman John C. Woods lied to superiors to get out of combat duty — and they ended up promoting him to the official hangman for Hitler's top Nazis.

allthatsinteresting.com

Yeah not a nice scene!

 

[Denny347]

If someone murdered a family member of yours and the evidence was solid, how long would you want to wait to 'get it right'?

You are asking for an emotional response that I cannot do as I have not been through that. However, having a couple of friends who have had their LE son's killed in the line of duty, I will use their example. They allowed the Prosecutors to remove the death penalty if the suspect plead guilty to the murders. Their ability to rise above the "eye for an eye" is an example I hope I will never have to follow.

 

[Denny347]

Just under 150 people in 50 years in a country of 300+ million people - on average 3 per year. I certainly expect you to argue that even 3 is too many, but a rational man should know that perfection is an absolute and therefore unobtainable

Would you not want perfection in executions? I don't understand this logic. You ask about how I would react to my family member being murdered and how long I would wait to get it right? What if my family member was the innocent person executed by the state? How do they make that right? You throw around that average 3 per year as if THAT'S ok. You are referring to 3 innocent people killed for something they didn't do as if that is the cost of doing business. It doesn't make sense.

 

[Denny347]

I should think 2 years from first appearance in court on the charge that led to the death penalty should be sufficient. That should encourage the defense not only to seek a speedy trial but also strive to raise all issues early in the proceedings
rather than dole them out slowly in repetitive 'appeals' to keep a perp alive as long as possible seemingly not because they actually believe he is innocent but because they just don't like the death penalty

What are you basing that length of time on? A single appeal can take years to resolve. The defense is not typically the slow-down. The court system is SLOW and in no rush.

 

[DadSmith]

You are asking for an emotional response that I cannot do as I have not been through that. However, having a couple of friends who have had their LE son's killed in the line of duty, I will use their example. They allowed the Prosecutors to remove the death penalty if the suspect plead guilty to the murders. Their ability to rise above the "eye for an eye" is an example I hope I will never have to follow.

I disagree here. There is no justice without life for a life. If the evidence is sold they should be put to death quickly. No circumstantial evidence of course. Also they need to be removed from the breathing asap. Not when 50+ years later when they are 75. However, that won't happen.
I could see hard labor be brought back for violent felons. Give them a reason not to want to go back.

 

[matbmorr]

The show on cable 'Lockup: Raw' had a scene discussing life in prison v. execution. The basic premise was both convicts are going to die in prison; is there really a difference? It was an interesting viewpoint. As to a firing squad, I was told that multiple marksmen all took aim but only one of them had a live round while the others had blanks. This was to prevent knowing who actually executed (shot) the guilty. I don't know if that's true but I can imagine the mental toll it would take to be an executioner regarless of the method used.

It was actually the other way around, the last time I heard: of the 5 marksmen, 4 had live ammo and 1 had a blank round. That way, better opportunity for success, but each individual has no idea if they were the "dud" or not.

 

[Cavman]

Just curious what caliber theyd choose to carry out the firing squad

 

[ditcherman]

If someone murdered a family member of yours and the evidence was solid, how long would you want to wait to 'get it right'?

Also, I'm sure I'm using the term 'appeals' more loosely than the pedantic version of its meaning. I am referring to such cases as the type where an actual appeal to a higher court of a death penalty verdict is based on such cases as Atkins v Virginia, where SCOTUS restricted execution of the so-called 'retarded' but failed to tightly define the term, leading to efforts to 'creatively' interpret a defendant's
mental acuity to fit purely as a way to absolve him (or her) without regard to guilt - hence why I favor the 'guilty but [insane, retarded etc] because it should make no difference to the punishment unless the defendant can arguably be presented as unable to distinguish what he did as wrong

I should think 2 years from first appearance in court on the charge that led to the death penalty should be sufficient. That should encourage the defense not only to seek a speedy trial but also strive to raise all issues early in the proceedings
rather than dole them out slowly in repetitive 'appeals' to keep a perp alive as long as possible seemingly not because they actually believe he is innocent but because they just don't like the death penalty

I will focus on one of the few hard numbers in the following cited article. It is quite possible you will not, and the article contains many estimates that you can focus on with such formulations as 'It is believed ...' or 'It is estimated ...' or 'Up to [a certain percentage of something] is ['believed' or 'thought to be'] which are again inexact numbers without cited provenance, but this is the one I paid attention to:

21 Wrongfully Convicted Death Penalty Statistics

Executing an innocent person for a crime they did not commit is the greatest travesty of any legal system in existence right now. As of March 2014, there have been 144 total convictions that have

brandongaille.com

Just under 150 people in 50 years in a country of 300+ million people - on average 3 per year. I certainly expect you to argue that even 3 is too many, but a rational man should know that perfection is an absolute and therefore unobtainable

How long? Instantly, with 100% certainty.
Less than 100%, take a few minutes to figure it out. Then the cops show up, and the investigators, and then lawyers get involved, and you have to prove the certainty….
My point here is that the problem is the courts, and the fact that lawyers are allowed to make preposterous arguments to try to let a guilty person avoid consequences. Those lawyers are as guilty as the perp, except when they’re correct on freeing an innocent person.
It’s just too cumbersome a system that also allows fraud to creep in. It needs to be sped up, but the certainty also needs to be 100%.

 

[Farmerjon]

Well, my paternal grandfather was murdered in his bed, 18 rounds of 22LR, considered premeditated as her engine was warm, they asked where she went, she said to town. Don't remember if she couldn't load it or get a round chambered. She pled guilty, did less than 10 years.

 

[BugI02]

Would you not want perfection in executions? I don't understand this logic. You ask about how I would react to my family member being murdered and how long I would wait to get it right? What if my family member was the innocent person executed by the state? How do they make that right? You throw around that average 3 per year as if THAT'S ok. You are referring to 3 innocent people killed for something they didn't do as if that is the cost of doing business. It doesn't make sense.

"I certainly expect you to argue that even 3 is too many, but a rational man should know that perfection is an absolute and therefore unobtainable"

Perhaps read that part again. If you are arguing for no death penalty, please just say so, because the part about perfection being unobtainable is not just hyperbole and any penalty no matter how carefully applied will have the innocent swept up in the process

And then if you are in fact against the death penalty, doesn't that just reset your problem at the level of life without parole? Is it not a similar tragedy to imprison a man for the rest of his life if he may have been wrongly convicted? The elimination of the death penalty does not eliminate the imperfections in the system or make it more accurate

I suppose you can console yourself with the idea that LWP allows a chance for the prisoner to repent as well as a chance for exoneration if he was wrongly convicted, but I would expect '3 hots and a cot' for life to be cold comfort for those whose loved one was murdered - and after all, those are the ones from whom any meaningful forgiveness must come (temporally), not you or me

 

[BugI02]

What are you basing that length of time on? A single appeal can take years to resolve. The defense is not typically the slow-down. The court system is SLOW and in no rush.

Then speed the process up, perhaps by establishing a separate court track/system just for death penalty cases - and pay for it with the 18 years of subsidizing the criminals life that are no longer necessary

The fact that we have a horrendous system that does not work should not forestall the possibility of improving on it because the results MIGHT not be any better

 

[BugI02]

Just curious what caliber theyd choose to carry out the firing squad

I nominate 270 Winchester with 145 grain ELD-Xs

Edit: Arms should be tied behind the back and perp supported upright exposing a heart shot which would be the most humane

 

[Cavman]

I nominate 270 Winchester with 145 grain ELD-Xs

Edit: Arms should be tied behind the back and perp supported upright exposing a heart shot which would be the most humane

I like it

 

[CallSign Snafu]

Appeals, lots of appeals. They take a long time and are very expensive. Lots of man hours involved to insure that the person about to be executed is the one who actually committed the crime. Even after all that, 100% innocent people have been executed. I'm really torn as an LEO. However, seeing how messed up our criminal justice system is, I don't trust it to always kill the guilty and that gives me significant pause. Seeing how many people spent decades in prison for crimes they had nothing to do with is scary if you consider that likely correlates to death row.

This. Too many people on death row have been exonerated and some people have been proven innocent and they still killed them. I don't think the death penalty is worth it.