Getting water from a well after a SHTF scenario

[markiemark]

Great subject and alot of good info. Electric went out for a bit a couple weeks ago and made me start wondering if it happened to be longer or even somewhat permanent.

T-Bolt, Be sure to post when you get these in so I can check them out on your website. My static level is about 68 ft.

 

[BlueDog]

Here are 3 super low-tech methods to get water from your well without a submersible pump: 1.) disposable, polyethylene bailer, 2.) polythylene tubing fitted with a check-valve, or 3.) a perstialtic or whale pump powered by a car battery. Each of these methods are used all the time to collect water samples from environmental monitoring wells and the same approach follows for your water well.

There will be a little work involved with getting your water, but these are all low cost methods. For those of you on wells with low static water levels, the poly tubing with check valve may be the way to go - you could just leave the tubing in the well. The whale pump method will require the least labor, but is the most expensive of the three and also will not work if the SWL is low.

 

[stlaser]

This is misleading, with my setup 4" case and a pitless adapter these would not fit FYI....

I have looked at tons of options and the one I picked is a pump by Flojak. You don't have to remove your existing pump or pipes. It can pump from 150' wells. It can also feed to your house so your toilets work and if someone is pumping so does your shower. Prices range from $400-$700.

Four Guns is now a dealer for them. We don't stock them yet but we can order them and stocking inventory will be coming.

 

[stlaser]

Any decent generator has a 220v plug in on it, problem is what do you do when you run out of fuel?

could you not just get the backup generator going?

 

[mrjarrell]

Any decent generator has a 220v plug in on it, problem is what do you do when you run out of fuel?

If it were me, I would ration the generator usage. Use it just enough to get the necessary water to fill things like tubs and sinks and containers, then turn it off. I can make due without power for most things. I can't do without water, unless I have to.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Live below the crest of a hill with a cistern on the top of the hill. Run the genny for (half) a day and you fill a 20,000 gal. cistern. Then turn off the genny and save the fuel while you let gravity do its thing.

On another tip, does anyone make submersible well pumps that are both AC (110 or 220) as well as brushless DC (96, 48, 24, or 12)? I don't necessarily mean a single siphon head, pump, motor, and pipe that takes either, but as much sharing as possible. A single pipe connected to a single pump which can be drive by two separate motors, one wired for AC, the other for DC, each with their own wiring.

Normally, the pump would run off the AC, but if the grid goes down, instead of wasting power with an inverter, a solar charged battery bank could directly power the DC side of the submersible pump.

Of course, I'm sure a siphon head with two motors will cost a lot more $$$$, but wouldn't you love to have that reliability rather than that money when you're thirsty and having to venture out with an empty water jug?

 

[churchmouse]

A motor such as you describe would have so many different and isolated winding as to be very large and not feasible. A multi-voltage A/C motor has 9 or more leads to attach the winding's to power. This motor would have double that or more.

 

[Sailor]

Could you just use a low voltage DC pump, battery and solar panel? For an emergencies low flow during the day for drinking water?

 

[RobbyMaQ]

Silly question. Would it be possible to rig it up to the 1" supply line INSIDE the house? I am assuming it shouldn't be that much of an issue, other than mounting hardware, making it rigid, and putting in a shut-off (for when not in use).

 

[CathyInBlue]

A motor such as you describe would have so many different and isolated winding as to be very large and not feasible. A multi-voltage A/C motor has 9 or more leads to attach the winding's to power. This motor would have double that or more.

I wasn't really thinking of it as a single motor that can suckle at both teets. More like two completely separate motors with a common drive shaft, both able to drive the pump. When one's powered, the other is switched to prevent it from acting as a dynamo, and vice versa.

 

[churchmouse]

I wasn't really thinking of it as a single motor that can suckle at both teets. More like two completely separate motors with a common drive shaft, both able to drive the pump. When one's powered, the other is switched to prevent it from acting as a dynamo, and vice versa.

The 220 V well pumps are hi-torque motors for their size. a 120V motor would have to have a mush larger winding area to achieve the same work rating.
As to rigging one in the house, well pump's are lift station units not capable of "Pulling" the water up from the well. This would take a diaphragm style pump.
Both are good ideas but will require some sciencing (Sp) out to make work.

 

[nate1865]

grundfos

Grundfos makes a 120 V 3" pump that can pump from a very deep well and is very energy efficient. It has a 1" discharge pipe, which leaves more room in a narrower 4" well too, making the prospect of installing an additional hand pump much more likely.

 

[stlaser]

What diameter is the pump's cylinder?

Grundfos makes a 120 V 3" pump that can pump from a very deep well and is very energy efficient. It has a 1" discharge pipe, which leaves more room in a narrower 4" well too, making the prospect of installing an additional hand pump much more likely.

 

[melensdad]

Why use a hand pump when you can just fire up the generator?

If the SHTF, and if you don't have fuel, then you are probably going to be cold, hungry and thirsty. I've got nearly 1000 gallons of diesel stored, you can convert most Diesel engines to run on vegitable oil, bio-deisel, etc. And you can make bio-diesel.

 

[CathyInBlue]

The 220 V well pumps are hi-torque motors for their size. a 120V motor would have to have a mush larger winding area to achieve the same work rating.
As to rigging one in the house, well pump's are lift station units not capable of "Pulling" the water up from the well. This would take a diaphragm style pump.
Both are good ideas but will require some sciencing (Sp) out to make work.

You've missed my point. The point is not to mix a 220 VAC and a 110 VAC motor in the same submersible lift pump housing. As you rightly state, that would be pointless, hence not my point. My point was to mix a 220 VAC and a 48 VDC brushless motor (also known for mammoth amounts of torque) in the same submersible lift pump housing. When the grid goes down and there's no fuel for the genny, but you have a 48 VDC solar backup system, you will have as much water as there is sun to shine on your collectors. The point being to avoid the inefficiencies of sending that 48 VDC through an inverter in order to power the pump. Just send it through the brushless DC motor controller.

 

[stlaser]

I will be none of those and I do not have a 1000 gal of diesel sitting around. At some point you may run out of your precious juice not to mention generators are noisy and attract alot of attention I do not need or want.

Why use a hand pump when you can just fire up the generator?

If the SHTF, and if you don't have fuel, then you are probably going to be cold, hungry and thirsty. I've got nearly 1000 gallons of diesel stored, you can convert most Diesel engines to run on vegitable oil, bio-deisel, etc. And you can make bio-diesel.

 

[melensdad]

I will be none of those and I do not have a 1000 gal of diesel sitting around. At some point you may run out of your precious juice not to mention generators are noisy and attract alot of attention I do not need or want.

As I said there is the BIO-diesel and veggie fuel production that will come in when the dino diesel is gone. But as to noise, I'm 6 miles from the nearest small town and have a big muffler on my generator.

All that said, there is no historical evidence on this planet that society will totally break down and leave us with a scenario like shown in THE BOOK OF ELI or THE ROAD. Far more likely would be something like Argentina between 2000 and 2004.

 

[churchmouse]

You've missed my point. The point is not to mix a 220 VAC and a 110 VAC motor in the same submersible lift pump housing. As you rightly state, that would be pointless, hence not my point. My point was to mix a 220 VAC and a 48 VDC brushless motor (also known for mammoth amounts of torque) in the same submersible lift pump housing. When the grid goes down and there's no fuel for the genny, but you have a 48 VDC solar backup system, you will have as much water as there is sun to shine on your collectors. The point being to avoid the inefficiencies of sending that 48 VDC through an inverter in order to power the pump. Just send it through the brushless DC motor controller.

Now that makes sense. They would still have to co-exist in the same motor shell. Interesting engineering problem.
We have 48 Volts DC in one of our back ups and far more in the one at the BOL.

 

[stlaser]

Other than the Romans had indoor plumming and then somehow that vanished for how long again? Plenty of history (albeit not recent history) shows us how things can go backward pretty quick. How far backward is anyones guess. Not to mention we have a highly immoral society. My theory, plan for worst hope for the best. I have a genset (which runs on pane, NG or gasoline) as well but do not want that as my only backup, everyone should have a plan B. That said amish have been pumping their own water by hand for quit some time with good results.....

As I said there is the BIO-diesel and veggie fuel production that will come in when the dino diesel is gone. But as to noise, I'm 6 miles from the nearest small town and have a big muffler on my generator.

All that said, there is no historical evidence on this planet that society will totally break down and leave us with a scenario like shown in THE BOOK OF ELI or THE ROAD. Far more likely would be something like Argentina between 2000 and 2004.

 

[churchmouse]

As I said there is the BIO-diesel and veggie fuel production that will come in when the dino diesel is gone. But as to noise, I'm 6 miles from the nearest small town and have a big muffler on my generator.

All that said, there is no historical evidence on this planet that society will totally break down and leave us with a scenario like shown in THE BOOK OF ELI or THE ROAD. Far more likely would be something like Argentina between 2000 and 2004.

My fear is a failure in the power grid. It is so accessible and open to attack. A strategic hit or hits could black out the entire coastline and several states in-land. This could cascade into much more. An infrastructure failure such as this could put many in trouble. Do you have access to a well??? another water source??? water stored??? A power source not grid related???

We are on the city system but have access to a well. We have the power to run it.