Gibson Guitars raided, Lacey Act cited

[kwatters]

link to a Fox News article on this:

Fed Raid Targets Guitars Made From Endangered Trees | FoxNews.com

 

[gunsisgood]

Gibson is thumbing their nose at the Feds and starting up production again.

Oh boy, sounds like a great excuse to buy ANOTHER Gibson guitar to add to the collection.

p.s. I this were a union shop the feds would pay them NO attention.

 

[jeremy]

Sigh....

 

[level.eleven]

IF it is clearly an old guitar wouldn't it be obvious that it is old enough to be grandfathered in? I've seen many vintage guitars.. It is obvious they are vintage.. Not to mention if it's a good brand most of them have the year printed on them somewhere.

I think that is the rub with seizure. The onus is on you to prove that it isn't illegal. This is what gives us the names of court cases listed in the article.

"United States of America v. Ebony Wood in Various Forms"

 

[NYFelon]

I think that is the rub with seizure. The onus is on you to prove that it isn't illegal. This is what gives us the names of court cases listed in the article.

"United States of America v. Ebony Wood in Various Forms"

There's a dirty joke in there somewhere.

 

[Hemingway]

Actually, U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service.

But Federal footsoldiers nonetheless.

Is wood Fish or Wildlife? I'm confused

 

[Lead Head]

We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force.— Ayn Rand

Did you really think we want those laws observed? said Dr. Ferris. We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be
much easier to deal with. ('Atlas Shrugged' 1957) {WMail Issue #23}

Almost 500,000 people are directly employed by Federal and State Prisons.

Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) - State and Federal prison facility characteristics

Number of facilities – Source – Census of State and Federal Correctional Facilities, 2005

From June 30, 2000 to December 30, 2005 – The number of state and federal correctional facilities increased from 1,668 to 1,821— an increase of 9%.

Private facilities accounted for nearly all of the increase during these five years (from 264 to 415).

Federally operated facilities increased by 21% (from 84 to 102).

State-operated facilities increased by 9% (from 1,584 to 1,719).

The number of minimum security increased by 155 and maximum security facilities increase by 40.

This just scratches the surface. If you add all the secondary industries AND employees that support the US Prison System, it could easily top 2,000,000.

That is the low hanging fruit. They will keep ratcheting down on us until we are either locked up or acting like the good robots they want us to be.

The frog may not be able to jump out of the pan in time.

btw: Ayn Rand was getting warmer. Animal Farm. 1984. Have a nice day.

 

[lrahm]

I wonder how much of our tax dollars are spent to net a $250 fine.

I do love your replys.

 

[lrahm]

Almost 500,000 people are directly employed by Federal and State Prisons.

Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) - State and Federal prison facility characteristics

Number of facilities – Source – Census of State and Federal Correctional Facilities, 2005

From June 30, 2000 to December 30, 2005 – The number of state and federal correctional facilities increased from 1,668 to 1,821— an increase of 9%.

Private facilities accounted for nearly all of the increase during these five years (from 264 to 415).

Federally operated facilities increased by 21% (from 84 to 102).

State-operated facilities increased by 9% (from 1,584 to 1,719).

The number of minimum security increased by 155 and maximum security facilities increase by 40.

This just scratches the surface. If you add all the secondary industries AND employees that support the US Prison System, it could easily top 2,000,000.

That is the low hanging fruit. They will keep ratcheting down on us until we are either locked up or acting like the good robots they want us to be.

The frog may not be able to jump out of the pan in time.

btw: Ayn Rand was getting warmer. Animal Farm. 1984. Have a nice day.

Better than have some of those creeps running the streets.

 

[hornadylnl]

If I were the owner of Gibson, I'd close the doors and retire to another country.

 

[Lead Head]

Better than have some of those creeps running the streets.

Some yes, but how many need locked up ?

How many were at least semi-productive and not a BURDEN to tax payers ?

How many are now more corrupt and well trained as professional criminals then they were before being locked up ?

The US has the highest incarceration rate on the planet. Why ??????

There has and will always be violent and dangerous criminals needing removed from society, but pot smoking Johnny with his dime bag of weed and pharma pills he stole from mommy surely doesn't qualify.

He's no worse then his pill popping mommy and drunk daddy.

 

[chizzle]

Great interview from their CEO that I found on the www.DailyPaul.com website.

[ame="http://youtu.be/O_-taqM5Sk0"]http://youtu.be/O_-taqM5Sk0[/ame]

It's crazy that we're shutting down business in the US even though the Indian government is happy to sell what they deem certified rosewood to the US market. It also sounds as if they're trying to enforce a foreign law in the US!

 

[rambone]

Great interview from their CEO that I found on the www.DailyPaul.com website.

http://youtu.be/O_-taqM5Sk0

He says armed agents shut down the factory, sent workers home, evacuated the factory, and confiscated wood. They also said that any guitar that they ship out of their facility is 'potentially obstruction of justice' to be followed by criminal charges.

 

[rambone]

Where was the county sheriff? He should have protected his county from Federal Jackboots stomping in.

 

[chizzle]

The Thrill is Gone

Amazing that the CEO said the rules could be interpreted that everyone who owns this stuff could be "implicated" in this...

Indian Rosewood Supplier > Gibson Guitars > Retailers > End User

So, does that mean BB King could be implemented because Lucille has a rosewood fingerboard?

Gibson.com: Gibson Custom BB King Lucille

 

[rambone]

Fascism

Gibson has no judge or jury to appeal to. They haven't even been charged. They are just ordered to stop production and that they better not ship anything out of the factory.

 

[Leo]

And people wonder why anyone with enough money to go into business chooses to spend their money over seas. It has nothing to do with unions, American workers, engineering, or vision. It has to do with a government that has decided they are going to make themselves Lords and force everyone else to become surfs. And our parents were worried about the Russians.....

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Would someone calm rambone down?

Ram, buddy, relax this is just politics. Gibson gives money to Republicans and thus got shut down. Martin guitars gives money to Democrats and uses the same wood but Martin won't even get an angry letter from the feds.

CEO of Gibson Guitar a Republican donor; Democrat competitor uses same wood - Landmark Report

Just another day in the United States of Chicago.

They do this day in and day out in Chicago, Barry's hometown. This is nothing, just wait until we get closer to November 2012.

The purpose of the law is what, ram? To increase your hold on power, to build barriers to entry and to seek economic rents.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

It also sounds as if they're trying to enforce a foreign law in the US!

No, .gov is telling the Republican businessmen to get in line and get the checks for Obama ready. Give to Barry and he won't shut you down.

Gee, that's a nice guitar factory you got down there.

Here's a video explaining how .gov operates in the United States of Chicago (the legal process starts at 1:37):


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNZKUozrBl4[/ame]

 

[RockofStrength]

Gibson has no judge or jury to appeal to. They haven't even been charged. They are just ordered to stop production and that they better not ship anything out of the factory.

This. A stupid law that goes to trial can be dealt with in court, at least, and receive a fair hearing.

These people have had the government thugs show up and tell them to stop producing because we don't like the materials you use: no appeal, no justice system at all.