Government Agencies buying and stockpiling Ammunition. Ammunition Shortage caused by the Government?

[DadSmith]

 

[schmart]

IMO, this isn't that much news. The contract is for about $750,000 in ammo for the year. Self defense ammo is right at $1/round now, I suspect the police/security departments are at about the same price. If there are only 1000 armed agents (building security, etc) that is only 750 rounds each person for annual training requirements. That is only 20 people/state between both agencies to provide all their training and "used" ammunition for the year. The cost is way under 1 cent per person in the US and is certainly not enough to cause a shortage in general availability.

I'm just as much small government as anyone, and there are certainly things where the government is out of control on spending and impact to me as a citizen, but this seems like picking up pennies on the ground when there are $20 bills flying in the air

--Rick

 

[Mij]

It’s not only the IRS it’s all .gov agy’s. Billions of rounds been going on for about 4+ yrs. Look at the number of rounds just for the post office. And all hollow point. Presumably for use against U.S. civilians. Not even allowed by the Geniva Convention. Why does my postman need hp ammo?

 

[Mij]

Total is 1.6 billion rounds. Started in 2013. DHS getting ready for a general uprising.

 

[Onebad06vtx]

On top of this,we are sending ammo to Ukraine which is really hurting!

 

[BigRed]

When a government wants to disarm you, it is because they intend to shoot you.

Shooting you requires ammo.

 

[Mij]

On top of this,we are sending ammo to Ukraine which is really hurting!

The ammo we send to others is mil spec ball, it’s been stockpiled for decades and those stockpiles will be replenished. The stuff ordered by DHS is not.

 

[BugI02]

When we take back the senate and the house, encourage your representatives to compel the gov't to sell off their stockpiles to the people in order to help lower the deficit

 

[Onebad06vtx]

The ammo we send to others is mil spec ball, it’s been stockpiled for decades and those stockpiles will be replenished. The stuff ordered by DHS is not.

Do you not think we are replenishing as we send old stuff out?
So under Bidenlester,we get rid of all our ammo before we replenish?
Sounds about right with this administration.

 

[Peacekeeper3073]

Can’t get our guns, drain the ammo supply.

 

[Mij]

See, LCAAP. fairly common knowledge I know. But some may be unaware.

 

[Creedmoor]

It’s not only the IRS it’s all .gov agy’s. Billions of rounds been going on for about 4+ yrs. Look at the number of rounds just for the post office. And all hollow point. Presumably for use against U.S. civilians. Not even allowed by the Geniva Convention. Why does my postman need hp ammo?

You need to brush up on your Conventions.
Look more at The Hague.
And since 2010 US Army Military Police have been issued HP ammo for use on bases.

These numbers of rounds are for what they CAN buy at that price that was on the purchase order. Not that they did order that many rounds.

 

[ECS686]

As someone that retired from DOJ and was involved in Firearms Training let me break the numbers down

IRS has just over 2,000 Criminal investigatiors (1811’s) that are armed LEO’s. With 5 million rounds that breaks down to just over 2,000 rounds per agent. I doubt they shoot that much in one year with qualification and specialty training as they don’t have any specialty teams so the 5 million is probably a multi year contract.

A few years ago when Homland Security had a couple billion round contract was no different. With all the agencies under DHS your talking almost 100K Officers that ran 40 S&W alone at the time (almost all have went to 9mm Glocks or Sigs since late 2019) And factor in some do shoot quite a bit (USBP BORSTAR etc) then just to outfit everyone with their duty carry load out that’s a lot. As well as the 2 or so billion was a multi year contract.

I have also been in Bureau of Prisons Armories certifying SORT Teams or just with normal work and specifically at 2 places (Victorville California and Florence Colorado) have seen 1 million rounds at hand. Others over 300K And BOP usually have a 5 year expiration date and if they haven’t used them for duty or training they.regulate the to training at the 5 year mark.

And to the ones pointing out most purchases was JHP Duty Type Ammo. Most Agencies train with their Duty Ammo as they change it out every 90 days. Some buy ball for training only but not as a routine practice.

The YouTube folks are sure running with it though!

 

[ECS686]

It’s not only the IRS it’s all .gov agy’s. Billions of rounds been going on for about 4+ yrs. Look at the number of rounds just for the post office. And all hollow point. Presumably for use against U.S. civilians. Not even allowed by the Geniva Convention. Why does my postman need hp ammo?

MIJ, please read my prior post as I broke it down. And in reference to your Posman comment the Postal Servive have Postal Inspectors which are sworn gun toting 1811 Criminal Investigators. Health and Human Services has a Police force (more of a protective role) for their facilities there’s over 100 and some Agencies that have at lease a few LEOs within their ranks. US Mint is another obscure agency one doesn’t hear about.

Also as Creedmoor stated several Military Branches have authorized and issued JHP at stateside bases for years. The USAF started issuing JHP in 9mm to State side bases for Security Forces all the way back in 1999 which opened the way for other branches.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

MIJ, please read my prior post as I broke it down. And in reference to your Posman comment the Postal Servive have Postal Inspectors which are sworn gun toting 1811 Criminal Investigators. Health and Human Services has a Police force (more of a protective role) for their facilities there’s over 100 and some Agencies that have at lease a few LEOs within their ranks. US Mint is another obscure agency one doesn’t hear about.

Also as Creedmoor stated several Military Branches have authorized and issued JHP at stateside bases for years. The USAF started issuing JHP in 9mm to State side bases for Security Forces all the way back in 1999 which opened the way for other branches.

Honestly, I've never understood the ban on HP ammo for warfare. It's (or at least soft point ammo) required for hunting everywhere as far as I know. So we want to make sure that animals are killed humanely, but wounding and crippling soldiers is okay?

 

[ECS686]

Honestly, I've never understood the ban on HP ammo for warfare. It's (or at least soft point ammo) required for hunting everywhere as far as I know. So we want to make sure that animals are killed humanely, but wounding and crippling soldiers is okay?

I am no scholar but I would say The Hague outlawed JHP and other type of rounds because of the time it came about. In that era they were making advances in weapons and munitions like software companies are today. Look how devastating WW 1 was just a dozen or so years later.

I was in the Air Guard at the time the USAF Started to issue JHP. The Chief Security Firces and JAG determined at stateside bases Security Forces were doing a domestic LE type mission so it was no violation of Hague. And we started carrying 124 grain Federal Hi Shock at the time. I retired from the ANG side in 2097 so not sure what the AF is using now.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I am no scholar but I would say The Hague outlawed JHP and other type of rounds because of the time it came about. In that era they were making advances in weapons and munitions like software companies are today. Look how devastating WW 1 was just a dozen or so years later.

I was in the Air Guard at the time the USAF Started to issue JHP. The Chief Security Firces and JAG determined at stateside bases Security Forces were doing a domestic LE type mission so it was no violation of Hague. And we started carrying 124 grain Federal Hi Shock at the time. I retired from the ANG side in 2097 so not sure what the AF is using now.

I have heard the theory that if you wound a soldier, you're taking 3 people out of the fight. The soldier himself, plus two others that will have to render aid to the wounded soldier. I don't know how much stock I put into that explanation though.

 

[ECS686]

I have heard the theory that if you wound a soldier, you're taking 3 people out of the fight. The soldier himself, plus two others that will have to render aid to the wounded soldier. I don't know how much stock I put into that explanation though.

I herd the same stuff regurgitated but to me it’s just BS that somebody ran with decades ago. Just institutional inbreeding that stays in the wash rinse and repeat

 

[DadSmith]

I have heard the theory that if you wound a soldier, you're taking 3 people out of the fight. The soldier himself, plus two others that will have to render aid to the wounded soldier. I don't know how much stock I put into that explanation though.

The United States never signed that treaty. We could be using anything we wanted to because we didn't sign on.

 

[johntheplinker]

The United States never signed that treaty. We could be using anything we wanted to because we didn't sign on.

True, but we follow it anyway so hopefully which ever country we're in a war with will also follow it.