Gun Shop Owner's Perspective: Why IL Should Not Pass Concealed Carry

[Uncle Jrod]

Could you cite examples of this occurring? Is it at plague proportion levels? Are these just imaginary fears based on a small number of incidents?

I'm sorry. I can't make it any more common sense than that. I guess safety and responsibility are of no concern to you.

 

[level0]

I'm sorry. I can't make it any more common sense than that. I guess safety and responsibility are of no concern to you.

That person is just asking for some evidence to support your claim. I too am interested in the statistics, please share them.

 

[Rhoadmar]

I'm sorry. I can't make it any more common sense than that. I guess safety and responsibility are of no concern to you.

Common sense devoid of facts is common speculation, hence imaginary.

 

[Shay]

I'm sorry. I can't make it any more common sense than that. I guess safety and responsibility are of no concern to you.

Says the guy who won't spend his own money and time improving himself and making himself safer. It's much easier to tell other people what they should do, right?

 

[Uncle Jrod]

So let's see... with eight weeks of military training including three of them spent training in firearms, you still had people "qualifying" and bouncing rounds off a flight deck. I gotta tell you, you're not inspiring confidence in your training abilities when you tell me that. I'll admit freely that I don't have as much training as some and more than others, but I'll also say that when I was very active in Appleseed Project, I never saw one of our students "bouncing rounds" off anything but the backstop. This was in a class that lasted a whole two days, about eight hours each.

Training requirements are nothing more nor less than an attempt to control who has access to guns. Originally, such restrictions were focused solely on the Black community in some places and other so-called "undesirables" in other places, but training requirements exist only to allow those who judge the quality of that person's skill to be inadequate. That is to say, if the local police chief doesn't like you, you might have 3000 hrs of training and it won't be enough, but if you have two hrs and he likes you, you're good to go.

No thanks, I prefer liberty, especially considering the fact that the info you were given about IN not having such a requirement ever and still being a very safe place to be around gun owners is completely true.

Please don't insult our intelligence by making idiotic comparisons to cars and driving. As you saw, they're far too easily refuted.

OTOH, if all you're doing is trolling and trying to p*** off our members, especially if you're claiming that Gunner's Mate title falsely, (and I don't know whether you are or not, I just know it would be easy to do,) feel free to carry on... I'm sure you'll find yourself banned in short order.

Blessings,
Bill

Hey Bill, the rounds bouncing off the flight deck was on my first deployment, I was only in for 6 months, I was an E-2, not running a range as of yet. Just line coaching. Ever seen a 5' girl who weighs 80 lbs try to fire an M14 from the shoulder on a rolling ship at sea?? Obviously she DID NOT qualify. Nice try ruining my credibility though. Maybe a 2 sided conversation is not welcome here at INGO.
If anyone gets mad at me for claiming my GM title falsely, go ahead. Maybe I'm lying when I say Great Grandpa was in WW1, Grandpa was a Coxwain in Korea, Dad was a Boatswains Mate on a PBR in Nam, and I was in the Persian Gulf when I watched the towers fall via satellite tv from the gunnery office aboard USS Arctic AOE 8 my first year in. We were all in the Navy and all served during wartime. Don't believe me? I don't care. I'm proud to have served and carried on the tradition. I offer you no proof because I owe you none.

 

[Uncle Jrod]

Says the guy who won't spend his own money and time improving himself and making himself safer. It's much easier to tell other people what they should do, right?

You sure are making a hard sell for me to pay you, eh?

 

[Uncle Jrod]

On another note, you are almost to 50

What happens at 50? Do I get a surprise party??

 

[Rhoadmar]

Hey Bill, the rounds bouncing off the flight deck was on my first deployment, I was only in for 6 months, I was an E-2, not running a range as of yet. Just line coaching. Ever seen a 5' girl who weighs 80 lbs try to fire an M14 from the shoulder on a rolling ship at sea?? Obviously she DID NOT qualify. Nice try ruining my credibility though. Maybe a 2 sided conversation is not welcome here at INGO.
If anyone gets mad at me for claiming my GM title falsely, go ahead. Maybe I'm lying when I say Great Grandpa was in WW1, Grandpa was a Coxwain in Korea, Dad was a Boatswains Mate on a PBR in Nam, and I was in the Persian Gulf when I watched the towers fall via satellite tv from the gunnery office aboard USS Arctic AOE 8 my first year in. We were all in the Navy and all served during wartime. Don't believe me? I don't care. I'm proud to have served and carried on the tradition. I offer you no proof because I owe you none.

Thanks for your service. Try not to get to butt hurt when people question your ideas and claims. This is an internet forum.

 

[Bunnykid68]

You sure are making a hard sell for me to pay you, eh?

Pay him? Thought you had all the training you needed at our expense

 

[Uncle Jrod]

Pay him? Thought you had all the training you needed at our expense

He's the one pushing for me to take a class.

 

[Bunnykid68]

He's the one pushing for me to take a class.

Well, you are pushing me and everyone else to take a class

 

[Shay]

You sure are making a hard sell for me to pay you, eh?

DO NOT take a class from me. I have nothing to teach you.

But I'm sure there are other instructors here who could improve what you think you can do.

 

[KG1]

I guess it was my post that started this storm. This mandatory training topic is nothing new to INGO. For the record I never said I was against training. I said I was against mandatory training.

While I would encourage any one new or otherwise to seek out as much firearm handling information or training as they desire I do not feel that a "Shall NOT be infringed" right should be subject to arbitrary mandatory training.

Other than that I think other members in this thread have pretty much covered every point that I would have made so I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

It would be nice if everyones LTCH was the 2nd Ammendment, but that is long gone and it ain't coming back any time soon.

Well, Uncle, just remember that we have been making progress on that front.

"Vermont carry" is now Vermont-Wyoming-Alaska-Arizona-Arkansas carry.

AND if more people voted for Rex in '96 Indiana could have joined them.

I have a solution for your concerns, Unc: how about instead of mandatory training we make training tax deductible?

Above the line deductions for gun school tuition, ammunition and travel expenses.

I think it a brilliant solution, but I am biased.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Well, Uncle, just remember that we have been making progress on that front.

"Vermont carry" is now Vermont-Wyoming-Alaska-Arizona-Arkansas carry.

AND if more people voted for Rex in '96 Indiana could have joined them.

I have a solution for your concerns, Unc: how about instead of mandatory training we make training tax deductible?

Above the line deductions for gun school tuition, ammunition and travel expenses.

I think it a brilliant solution, but I am biased.

You left out the few states that allow OC at least without a permit/license as well

 

[Josh Ward]

I would actually be all for mandatory training. .

Then you are also "all for" taking a leak all over the constitution of the United States.

You sure do have a big mouth without much to back it up....

 

[femurphy77]

Better watch out Bk, Jrod has like 9 kazillion rep points and he's only been here since May, It's taken you 3 years to get there~~~~

 

[Bunnykid68]

Better watch out Bk, Jrod has like 9 kazillion rep points and he's only been here since May, It's taken you 3 years to get there~~~~

He plays in the rep pyramid, I do not

 

[Bill of Rights]

Hey Bill, the rounds bouncing off the flight deck was on my first deployment, I was only in for 6 months, I was an E-2, not running a range as of yet. Just line coaching. Ever seen a 5' girl who weighs 80 lbs try to fire an M14 from the shoulder on a rolling ship at sea?? Obviously she DID NOT qualify. Nice try ruining my credibility though. Maybe a 2 sided conversation is not welcome here at INGO.
If anyone gets mad at me for claiming my GM title falsely, go ahead. Maybe I'm lying when I say Great Grandpa was in WW1, Grandpa was a Coxwain in Korea, Dad was a Boatswains Mate on a PBR in Nam, and I was in the Persian Gulf when I watched the towers fall via satellite tv from the gunnery office aboard USS Arctic AOE 8 my first year in. We were all in the Navy and all served during wartime. Don't believe me? I don't care. I'm proud to have served and carried on the tradition. I offer you no proof because I owe you none.

You're right, you don't, and if you read what I said, I made it clear that I don't know whether your title was earned or just claimed. My point was only that others have claimed to be things they were not on the internet before... State Farm even made a commercial about it. ("Bonjour")

Two-sided conversation is certainly welcome. Trolling is not. Again, I don't know if you're doing the latter or not. Part of my job here and that of all the mod staff is to watch for people doing that and to remove them. To be clear, I don't want to remove anyone. One thing that will usually lead to me doing it is when the only thing someone contributes is belligerent argument.

Have I seen a 5' tall woman shooting a 10# rifle? Yes. I've not seen it at sea, however, and I grant you that that would be more difficult. Nonetheless, I'd think that that'd be one thing that the training would teach someone to compensate for (and the Navy snipers who took out those pirates months ago prove that theory correct.) Not everyone can be a sniper.

Finally, if it seems I was attacking your credibility, I was not. I was saying that if people who'd already been through weeks of training were the ones you were using to show someone having fallen short of the expertise you think people should have, I don't know what you want from them.... Perfection? 50 bullseye-only shots at 25yds with that M14 on rolling seas? That's hyperbole, of course, but it's the example I've used for years of the effect of the slippery slope on training requirements. You came into that example ("you're not giving me a lot of confidence in your training") when you identified yourself as their instructor.

Regardless of that, I intend no offense. My apologies if I conveyed otherwise and none was due.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Roadie]

I'm sorry. I can't make it any more common sense than that. I guess safety and responsibility are of no concern to you.

Ah, the old "common sense" argument.. I'm sorry, but common sense is a subjective concept, not an objective concept. To some, "common sense" means banning all guns. Obviously you disagree with that, thus proving the subjectiveness of "common sense".

Now, if you can provide facts and data showing that there are more accidents in States without a training requirement, or even in states that require no License whatsoever(Constitutional Carry) vs states WITH a training requirement, then our definitions of "common sense" might match.

Until then, if you are intellectually honest with yourself, your "common sense" is actually just your opinion.