Highpower rifles for hunting in Indiana

[Kirk Freeman]

Hook, what about a special license for centerfire rifles then as a solution to your concerns?

Pay an extra fee, a hunter's ed test (regardless of age) and a shooting qualification test?

 

[Anonym]

That might go a long ways towards helping out, but definitely doesn't solve the problem.

As far as the shooter with the M14 and the comments about the M16 round, you aren't talking apples to apples. 40 grain frangible bullet compared to a 62 grain steel core FMJ is quite a difference. Bet the terrorist would prefer you take a 200 yard shot with a varmint round over a 400 yard shot with milsurp ball ammo...

 

[Kirk Freeman]

That might go a long ways towards helping out, but definitely doesn't solve the problem.

How does greater education not solve the problem?

 

[avboiler11]

As far as the shooter with the M14 and the comments about the M16 round, you aren't talking apples to apples. 40 grain frangible bullet compared to a 62 grain steel core FMJ is quite a difference.

You're right.

But if you're making about the "potential for damage and death" when opposing centerfire rifles for whitetail, then pointing out the military switched to the smaller, lighter 5.56 vs. the bigger, heavier 7.62 is quite appropriate.

FMJ of any caliber tends to make neat little holes (one reason why many states that allow centerfire rifles ban FMJs for deer hunting) with some fragmenting & yawing through flesh. Contrast this with a purpose-built varmint bullet that explodes on contact, expelling all of its energy immediately. That's why varmint hunters use varmint bullets - substantial terminal effects. These terminal effects are the reason why soft and hollow point bullets are banned in international warfare per the Hague Convention.

I sympathize with the plight you face with trespassers on your land, but your fears about the wild west erupting in our state should centerfire rifles be legalized for deer, with bullets whizzing around everywhere, are simply irrational and unfounded given the facts of the 37 states that allow unrestricted rifle hunting for deer.

 

[Hookeye]

Kirk,

I don't know how that would work.

Even if decent sportsmen could get a special permit, the (UDC) Uncle Dad Clan would think the rules allowed them to do it as well (no permit)

BTW I'm actually kind of an anti legislation person.......I wouldn't suggest more.

With the suggestions of specialized seasons, I am surprised that the State hasn't come out with something along the lines of a "rut permit".

Any weapon (current types), 2 weeks of prime rut (or even broken into A week and B week- separate tags)..............$50 for a resident, can buy both and hunt 2 weeks, but only allowed 1 buck.

It looks more and more like we're heading for that Colorado type of system.

Heck, might even have those "rut permits" by draw

 

[Hookeye]

How does greater education not solve the problem?

Absorbing information good enough to pass some state standardized test and applying it in the real world properly can be two VERY different things.

 

[Hookeye]

AV,


Standard issue= what allows city boys and girls to put bullets on target in shortest learning curve.

It's about best bang for the buck, not best bang.

 

[Anonym]

I've done quite a bit of HP rifle shooting in the past when I was a member of the Indiana National Guard HP rifle team. I have had some pretty extensive training when it comes to rifles and long range shooting. I would NOT take a HP rifle to the field to deer hunt unless I was very familiar with not only WHAT was around me, but WHO. It takes much more to stop a large bore hunting bullet than it does to stop a small bore varmint bullet by simple design. They are made to crush bones and expand in flesh, maintaining as close to 100% weight retention as possible.

Hunters Ed is a great thing, but the vast majority of folks would do a brain dump as soon as class was over so long as they got what they needed out of the deal. Happens all the time. Put them in a real-life scenario and we can only hope for the best that something of what they regurgitated during class sunk into their brains and managed to seep out in their actions.

Complicate that with so many hunters hunting on public land or private property that is not their own and you are brewing disaster. Joe Schmoe on the public land next to my property may or may not have any idea that my home and family lies just over the crest of that hill when they are shooting at a deer with a HP rifle. They may or may not know that another hunter is just out of sight but well within the effective range of their HP rifle when they take a shot that doesn't have a perfectly solid backdrop. Sure, they are all "what-if" scenarios, but knowing exactly what a .308 can do at 1,000 yards makes me wish that someone only has a hundred or two usable yards in their armory when they are anywhere close to me! Hopefully they can tell if they are within a couple hundred yards of a residence at least...

 

[Matt52]

I don't think letting John Q peel 500+ yard shots at deer with a Mosin and milsurp ammo to be a good idea.
Especially when I'm in the field past the deer.

We have enough idiots causing problems trying to employ "regular" gear.

No need to invite a new crop of morons.

Other states allow HP rifles and dont have problems with this so what makes us so different

 

[djl02]

If people would use some sense,I dont see the problem.But there are some idiots out there. People know its wrong to trespass yet they still do it. Some people unload there gun on deer if they dont drop in their tracks.Some people shoot through brush when they know its not the best shot.
I know if given the opportunity to use my HPR I could take a better shot than with what I use now (because its the most accurate weapon I own). I hunt state land,and you see some @@@@ every year. I saw 4 hunters unload atleast 20 rounds on a deer opening morning last year. With all the orange paint on the trees I'm sure they didnt even know I was on the other ridge.
I still would hunt a HPR season though.

 

[tyrajam]

I don't think letting John Q peel 500+ yard shots at deer with a Mosin and milsurp ammo to be a good idea.
Especially when I'm in the field past the deer.

We have enough idiots causing problems trying to employ "regular" gear.

No need to invite a new crop of morons.

Looks like you are getting your firearms info from NancyPelosi. A shotgun shooting slugs is NOT "regular" deer hunting gear.That would be, you know, deer rifles. I particularly like your complaints aboutshotgun slugs zinging past your tree stand. You know that shotgun slugsricochet more and more dangerously than rifle bullets, right? So in yourscenario hunters shooting regular deer rifles would make your hunting areasafer. This hysteria about using deer rifles for deer is just plain oldignorance. I moved to Indiana 10 years ago from Oregon. Everybody I hunted withused a bolt action rifle to take game with one well-placed shot. My firstopening day in Indiana was pretty terrifying, it seemed like everybody in thewoods had a semi auto or pump shotgun and as soon as something brown walked by,it was a competition to see who could empty their mags the fastest. Filling thewoods with 500gr slugs slung from inaccurate bird guns, maybe that’s what yougrew up with, but that doesn’t make it the best- or safest- way of hunting.

 

[Hookeye]

Pelosi believes inanimate objects make people do things.
Evidently you do too.

As if the change from shotgun to rifle will magically make careless folks stick to safer shot selection. Not all danger is from ricochet, in my prev post I spoke about unknown things beyond the target, skylined buck and field drop off.

I have on this thread (and many others) said that we have a PEOPLE problem. In hunting accidents the lack of target identification and knowing what was beyond the target have proven to be factors. Adding distance I think would magnify those problems.

A slob with a shotgun will be a slob with a rifle.

BTW, not all shotgunners shoot beyond their gear/personal limits and some of us know our stuff and shoot well. AND........some of us are good riflemen.

I've been around thousands of shooters and hunters, been in the gun and hunting circles for decades and pretty much think most people are stupid and or suck. I don't think their wearing camo or blaze orange changes that.

And THAT was my point, and has been all along. If they terrified you with shotguns blasting away, just think of milsurp crap zinging around from SKS and Mosins or who knows what other non zeroed rig they decide to use at some deer or thought to be deer at 300+ yards. When SKS rifles were 99 bucks and a case of ammo was too, we had some folks bouncing crap into houses/by other people.

A punk arsed kid might blast at a deer with some bead sighted shotgun, never having zeroed his rig. Same kid with an '06..........will probably take a sloppy shot at farther stuff...........and distance hides detail, of what the target is and what lies beyond it.

I do think a lesser work ethic to also show up in lesser thinking types. And inviting more people into the hunting ranks with rifles is asking for more risk. If it is or is perceived to be easier, by using a rifle, then folks that don't know WTH they are doing will probably give it a go, esp with cheap gear (certain rifles of crap trigger and questionable ammo variable control).

We already have plenty of idiots like that, who won't zero their shotguns, use mixed ammo, don't know the regs and other...........giving them the option of rifles isn't going to make them think.

 

[Hookeye]

Shotguns can be very effective. My 870 shot 1.5" groups at 100 yards. I tuned it, trigger job and bought all my slugs from one lot # and verified zero. Even learned through range testing when to clean it. It took two foulers to get it in the groove and then it'd hold a nice group for the next 10 or 12 shots.
It also had a Leupold 4X compact on it. High comb stock, drilled and tapped receiver, Burris Zee rings, scope nice and low, fit like a rifle.

I never ran my bird guns on deer, used dedicated slug setups. Lots of us lowlife Hoosiers have, for decades. No need for your western enlightenment attempts, thanks.

BTW, I've heard of folks losing deer with HP rifles. Hmmmmm.

Bolt guns???? You run a Cooper or similar single shot bolt rig?

Hell, I was chucking with a Ruger #1 in 8th grade. I think my sorry midswestern state arse knows how to use a friggin' single shot.

If I do shoot my deer more than once, and sometimes I do, it's probably to very high % got another hole in it, damn close to the first. If I don't see where I hit then by golly I thump them again.....but only if the shot is safe.

Adding another hole for insurance isn't the same as tossing another bullet through the air in hopes of hitting the deer. Some people do that.

Don't understand such sloppiness, but saw enough to make me sick, working in sporting goods retail.

I would call myself a shooter that hunts, my deer may not be trophies, but they get trophy friggin' holes put in them

 

[Hookeye]

Any questions put forth in my prev posts are rhetorical.
I'm not in the mood to engage in further discussion with those of emotionalist/poor argument. Don't spin what I say, and don't flounder in your reading comprehension.
Those that can think, I'm open to dialogue.

 

[Tydeeh22]

Any questions put forth in my prev posts are rhetorical.
I'm not in the mood to engage in further discussion with those of emotionalist/poor argument. Don't spin what I say, and don't flounder in your reading comprehension.
Those that can think, I'm open to dialogue.

i applaud your efforts. . while the educated, understanding, and firearm "enlightened" bit of us can handle using a 243 / 270 / 30-06 for deer, those that would be unsafe about it would be the downfall. yet those same people are already unsafe about it with their shotguns and pistols. ill be sitting lake side when the orange army invades. dragging a deer out 4 minutes after open may be the best feeling ever. next to OD'ing on bacon.

 

[tyrajam]

I guess I can’t have a rational conversation with an irrational person.

Pelosi believes inanimate objects make people do things..

And inviting more people into the hunting ranks with rifles is asking for more risk..

I LOVE that you can put two contradictory statements in the same post and not even see that you are doing it!

Not all danger is from ricochet, in my prev post I spoke about unknown things beyond the target. ..

Where the shotgun slug travels 16% FARTHER than the rifle

If they terrified you with shotguns blasting away, just think of milsurp crap zinging around from SKS and Mosins or who knows what other non zeroed rig they decide to use at some deer or thought to be deer at 300+ yards. ..

We don't have to imagine, rifles are legal in 41 states and this doesn't happen (FMJ ammo is illegal for deer in most states). If you have to make up problems so that you can impose your solutions, there might be a job waiting for you at the white house.

A punk arsed kid might blast at a deer with some bead sighted shotgun, never having zeroed his rig. Same kid with an '06..........will probably take a sloppy shot at farther stuff.............

More imagined problems. "Might"? "Will probably"? Try dealing in facts please.



Hookeye, this is getting ridiculous. Your irrational argument that rifles(or rifle hunters who aren’t as highly trained as yourself) are inherently moredangerous than shotguns is simply false so please stop. Your antiquated theorywas debunked years ago. Here are some of the facts from the study done by the Army’s Armament Research, Developmentand Engineering Center at Picatinny Arsenal in New Jersey.

”Technology has changed for the shotgun and muzzleloader, and thedifference between them and a [deer] rifle is decreasing from what it was yearsago,” Mountaintop consultant Todd Bacastow said.

The study examined ballistics data on three popular deer-hunting guns: a.30-06 rifle, a 12-gauge shotgun and a .50-caliber muzzleloader. The rifle hadthe greatest maximum range at 2.64 miles, followed by the shotgun at 1.97 milesand the muzzleloader, which generally uses heavier and slower bullets, at 1.74miles.

However, Bacastow noted that to achieve maximum range, shots must befired at a 35-degree angle, which is highly unlikely in a hunting situation. Henoted that a bullet fired at a 35-degree angle toward a deer 100 yards awaywould fly 210 feet above the animal’s back.

Most shots fired by hunters are relatively flat, and even a slight aimingerror usually results in a shot less than 5 degrees above the horizon. Whenshots are fired at an elevation of 5 degrees, the total distances traveled,including ricochets, are 1.66 miles for a rifle bullet and 1.3 miles for ashotgun slug.

When shots are fired holding the guns level 3 feet off the ground, theshotgun slug will travel 0.99 of a mile, 16 percent farther than the riflebullet will travel under the same circumstances.

The reason, Bacastow said, is that slugs tend to hold together better andlose less energy during ricochets than rifle bullets. Therefore, slugs oftencan travel farther than rifle bullets in common hunting scenarios.



Hooky, if you are obsessed with controlling what other people can do, pleasejoin a home owners association board and leave hunters alone. If you can’t dothat, then at least start dealing with facts instead of emotions.