hollow points....is there a point?

[armedindy]

ive been doing my research lately...and alot if what ive been hearing in regards to pistol cartridges and their ability to incapacitate says that common pistol calibers (9, .40, .45) are all lacking in stopping power (which i already knew) however...for years ive been paying big bucks for hollow point bullets for the sake of trying to compensate for what the caliber lacks (.45 acp for me).....but in the past week or two ive been wondering....if pistol cartridges dont break up like a hi power rifle bullet, and "hydra-static shock" is of little relevance, and optimal penetration is key in hitting and destroying vital organs, why use hollow points over fmj? dont hollow points actually lessen the penetration of the projectile as it enters its target....have i been paying out the A$$ for bullets that will only create large shallow wounds and risk not penetrating all the way to heart or spine? any thoughts, opinions, or expert advise would be appreciated.

 

[NIFT]

First of all: ain't no such thing as "stopping power." It is a myth.

Second, go here and read among the first 24 sticky threads by Dr. Roberts, and you will learn a lot about terminal ballistics, tissue disruption, and the pathophysiology of penetrating trauma:

Terminal Ballistic Information - M4Carbine.net Forums

 

[Sylvain]

I had to take a big breath to read your post.
Hollow points make a bigger wound channel, it does make bigger holes than FMJ.
They also reduce the risk of over penetration.
There is a reason why every LEO in the country uses hollow points instead of FMJs.

 

[gunman41mag]

Hollow-points don't penetrate as much as FMJ, but you don't want a bullet to go thur a bad guy & kill a person a block away

 

[1911 nut]

Most hollow points will penetrate 10-14 in. of tissue and not exit the body. FMJ's will go straight through most of the time and possibly hit someone or something on the other side which is a whole other mess legally and emotionally .

 

[Kase]

I have no problem with running FMJ's.

The way I think about it, no matter what your shot with, it's gonna F'n hurt


Whether I get hit in the chest with a FMJ or HP, I'm not going to know the difference

 

[Sylvain]

I have no problem with running FMJ's.

The way I think about it, no matter what your shot with, it's gonna F'n hurt


Whether I get hit in the chest with a FMJ or HP, I'm not going to know the difference

The innocent person standing a few feet behind the BG will.

 

[churchmouse]

Same quandary here. I put the high end Hornady or Glaser rds. in my personal carry after doing the vaunted "Melon and milk jug" test. These did far more damage than the hydro-shocks but I will not be defending myself against a mad Mellon or an out of sorts milk jug.

 

[jedi]

First of all: ain't no such thing as "stopping power." It is a myth.

Are you sure about that?
what about these?

30 mm caliber - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

-Jedi

 

[Mosinguy]

hollow points....is there a point?

No, usually hollow points have no point and instead have a hollow cavity in the bullet, hence the name "hollow point"


But seriously, they prevent over penetration and do much more damage than your normal FMJ.

 

[armedindy]

First of all: ain't no such thing as "stopping power." It is a myth.

Second, go here and read among the first 24 sticky threads by Dr. Roberts, and you will learn a lot about terminal ballistics, tissue disruption, and the pathophysiology of penetrating trauma:

Terminal Ballistic Information - M4Carbine.net Forums

I put quotes on "stopping power" because i already knew it was a myth...and ive already read some of what you pointed out...and i know that hp will create a larger cavity and more tissue damage...but shallower. .45 acp is big and slow....so my concern is that if i shoot at a big 250lb man wearing a sweater and a leather jacket with a hollow point (obviously it will still mess you up) but couldnt it just create a gaping shallow wound that doesnt penetrate deep enough to hit anything of importance? and i know that people say round "x" will penetrate "y amount" through ballistic gel, which is more than enough (when compared to human anatomy...i.e.: 12 in penetration is enough from the front of the chest to go in and hit the heart)....but personally i feel that the ballistic gel measuements are kinda bs....it doesnt account for clothing, large muscles, bones, a wallet in their breast pocket etc...so is there anyone who opts for fmj over hollow points for any reason other than price?

 

[Donnelly]

4" - 5" and you are still talking about a heart or lung shot anyway. Not to mention a head shot would be incapacitating. I wouldn't worry too much about the lack of penetration. Barring the BG wearing a ballistic vest, you should get all the penetration you need out of any common handgun caliber above .380.

 

[printcraft]

I put quotes on "stopping power" because i already knew it was a myth...and ive already read some of what you pointed out...and i know that hp will create a larger cavity and more tissue damage...but shallower. .45 acp is big and slow....so my concern is that if i shoot at a big 250lb man wearing a sweater and a leather jacket with a hollow point (obviously it will still mess you up) but couldnt it just create a gaping shallow wound that doesnt penetrate deep enough to hit anything of importance? and i know that people say round "x" will penetrate "y amount" through ballistic gel, which is more than enough (when compared to human anatomy...i.e.: 12 in penetration is enough from the front of the chest to go in and hit the heart)....but personally i feel that the ballistic gel measuements are kinda bs....it doesnt account for clothing, large muscles, bones, a wallet in their breast pocket etc...so is there anyone who opts for fmj over hollow points for any reason other than price?

I have heard of people running FMJ as winter carry for that reason.
More layers to punch through.
Hollow points becoming plugged and they don't expand reliably.

I know somebody has done testing of different material combinations as barriers.
Jean, Leather, etc.

 

[xring62]

Hollow points would always even with most coats be better on an asailant but would you always be defending face to face? how about if you & them' are behind walls/doors & vehicles exchanging shots,hollow points will be frustrating usually,FMJ you might be able to shoot what they are behind and eliminate the problem..Ive done tests on every kind ,performance of hollow points was very disturbing,I would never have just hollow points in any weapon.

 

[armedindy]

Hollow points would always even with most coats be better on an asailant but would you always be defending face to face? how about if you & them' are behind walls/doors & vehicles exchanging shots,hollow points will be frustrating usually,FMJ you might be able to shoot what they are behind and eliminate the problem..Ive done tests on every kind ,performance of hollow points was very disturbing,I would never have just hollow points in any weapon.

ive carried magazines that alternated hp and fmj....do u or anyone else do that...i think ive heard that that is not recommended...but i have confidence in my pistol

 

[churchmouse]

Hollow points would always even with most coats be better on an asailant but would you always be defending face to face? how about if you & them' are behind walls/doors & vehicles exchanging shots,hollow points will be frustrating usually,FMJ you might be able to shoot what they are behind and eliminate the problem..Ive done tests on every kind ,performance of hollow points was very disturbing,I would never have just hollow points in any weapon.

I have a mixed rd. back up mag for my 1911 with FMJ first 2 for just the reason you mentioned. Windshields or walls. The rest are mixed "Personal Protection"

 

[xring62]

fmj/hp

ive carried magazines that alternated hp and fmj....do u or anyone else do that...i think ive heard that that is not recommended...but i have confidence in my pistol

Yes I do alternate bullet types,even with a 'good' lead flat or roundnose depending on caliber

 

[.452browning]

I personally think 9mm, .40, and .45 all suck. I have a .45 and a 9mm for EDC....but I'd much rather carry my AK or AR slung on my back everywhere I go. It's just not practical and draws too much attention while holiday shopping at the mall. But I do carry Hornady XTP 115gr. in 9mm and Hornady XTP 230gr. in .45

 

[xM3RC1L3SS1x]

I carry a mag with hollow points and a mag with fmj's.

 

[nipprdog]

Hollow-points don't penetrate as much as FMJ, but you don't want a bullet to go thur a bad guy & kill a person a block away

That's why the NYPD switched from FMJ to HP.

I have no problem with running FMJ's.

The way I think about it, no matter what your shot with, it's gonna F'n hurt


Whether I get hit in the chest with a FMJ or HP, I'm not going to know the difference

A few years ago, we took a ham that had spoiled on a shooting day, and hung it from a tree at the base of the hill we shot into. I shot a couple 9mm FMJs through it. Complete penetration, with no damage. I then fired a Corbon 115gr HP at it. There was ham schrappnel everywhere! Along with a large, cone shaped wound channel. A couple more shots, and the ham was history.