hollow points....is there a point?

[octalman]

What do you object to as not true?

So what do you say is not correct and what is your source.

Mine is developers and those that test military ammo and weapons.

Zero. ZERO of this is true. none of it.

This is why I dont work in a gun shop anymore.

No offense to you my friend, all we know is what we learn from others, but...

This is the reason I quit.

I have sold my last Taurus Judge.

Sorry, rant off.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Kinetic energy is not a wounding mechanism and is an exceedingly poor proxy for the effectiveness of a cartridge/load/bullet.

Consider the following:
1. A hard punch by an athletic woman to the quadricep muscles.
2. A .22 short fired into quadricep muscles with no exit wound.
3. A 500 grain broadhead hunting arrow fired into quadricep muscles at 200 fps with the arrow staying in the leg.
4. A razor-sharp, large butcher knife used to cut across quadricep muscles.

Which "deposits" the most kinetic energy? The hard punch by the athletic woman "deposits" the most kinetic energy by far.

The razor-sharp butcher knife "deposits" the least kinetic energy by far, and the .22 short has over 50% more kinetic energy than the broadhead arrow.

Now, which does the most damage?
The punch with, by far, the largest "energy dump" does the least damage. Might be a bruise and a little soreness, but that's it

The razor-sharp butcher knife does, by far, the most damage but with minuscule "energy dump," and the broadhead arrow does much more damage than the lowly .22 short with slightly over half the kinetic energy.

Strongly suggest reading up on terminal ballistics and the reasons why kinetic energy "deposit" is both not a wounding mechanism and an exceedingly poor proxy for such.

Lets compare apples to oranges.

 

[Rambler]

.

 

[NIFT]

I don't know about anything being debunked, but right there are pictures of gunshot wounds at handgun velocities that are bigger in diameter than the expanded diameter of the projectiles. What causes this, if it is obviously not direct crushing action of contact with the projectile? I'm sure we have some deer hunters on this board that have used handguns and have seen damage to meat that is much greater than the size of the projectile or the tissue that it directly contacts. With HANDGUN rounds.

How do you explain the enormous damage that I witnessed as a result of a .357 Sig head shot, vs. the lesser damage of the equal diameter .38 Special head shot? What caused it?

How can a pressure wave of 60 atmospheres cause NO damage, given the inelastic nature of SOME human tissue? What does the duration of the pressure wave have to do with anything? A 9mm FMJ bullet that passes through your body is only in contact with tissue for a fraction of a second, but what's done is done. The damage is there, no matter how long it took.

These are the things I want answers to. So far, all I see are blanket statements that handgun bullets do not cause damage larger than the diameter of the bullet. I'm not buying it. It may not be a huge amount of damage, but I'll take even 1/4 inch of extra tissue destruction if I can get it.

If, indeed, you really want to learn about terminal/wound ballistics and the pathophysiology of penetrating trauma, I suggest you start here: Terminal Ballistic Information - M4Carbine.net Forums and read among the first 24 "sticky" threads. Should you need additional information, I suggest you contact Dr. Roberts directly. He is very approachable and can direct you to his work, that of Duncan MacPherson, Dr. Martin Fackler, and others. You will need the desire and time to do the digging.

 

[vaughn]

amen "double tap"

 

[45fan]

I suppose the energy dump though on hollow points could be proven to have some merit, if someone could calculate how much energy would be required to evaporate the average human body, develop a practical cartridge/platform for concealed carry, and develop a bullet that would only penetrate 4-5" while carrying the required energy. Until that happens, I think that we should either pray for ray guns, or just find the best option there is and pray we never have to find out if we made the correct choice.