How do I handle this situation? Lawyers, help please?

[Redhorse]

First of all, I can't believe I'm asking this. A friend of mine and I go out and get a couple drinks just about every weekend. I NEVER get intoxicated, I quite literally have two beers and maybe a shot (although early in the night) and that's it. I refuse to lose control of myself in public, especially while carrying. I simply want to clarify I do take responsibility and have self control while I'm out.

Here's my problem; evidently my friend is having ex-boyfriend problems. I'm leaving to take her to her apartment and then go home myself and her ex starts causing a seen outside of the bar. Keep in mind this place isn't a dive at all, it's a nice bar. I have no idea what's happening, I'm simply trying to walk away, which in the end her and I are both able to without too much commotion. However, at the time I was sure a physical confrontation between me and this individual was going to ensue. Based on her description of him, he is experienced in mixed martial arts and I believe a regular competitor in amateur fights. I simply and average sized adult male and not a fighter. I will admit I've been in rough situations on the farm with some of the farm animals (cows and horses really know how to do a number on you) but for the most part, I avoid fighting.

I'm sure all of you have already guessed it; what is the legal circumstance for me to use my firearm (deadly and/or non deadly) if he doesn't present a weapon other than his fists? I don't know the guys background, he could have a history of violence. I guess the mix martial arts thing is true, but I have no proof of this. I do know that if it is, I doubt I could get out of a scrap with him without some serious bodily harm.

I'm not trying to be all macho here, there's no point in going to prison over it. Nor am I trying to be all tough for this girl, we're strictly just friends. I just want to be able to enjoy some company and relaxiation after a long week of school and working two jobs all week.

Thoughts?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

First, there is no non-deadly use of a firearm in the legal world. Every use of a firearm is deadly force, even if it misses.

With that out of the way, you can only go on what you reasonably believe. He *could* have a history of violence is irrelevant. If you have a reasonable belief that he has been violent in the past, then that is relevant. If you have a reasonable belief he's a trained fighter and know he does competitions (maybe from his facebook, you've seen the trophies, your friend how's known him for a long time says he is and provides details), that can factor in to disparity of force issues. If you're just guessing he does or are going by fifth hand information, that's not a basis for a reasonable belief.

However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony.

"Serious bodily injury" means bodily injury that creates a substantial risk of death or that causes:
(1) serious permanent disfigurement;
(2) unconsciousness;
(3) extreme pain;
(4) permanent or protracted loss or impairment of the function of a bodily member or organ; or
(5) loss of a fetus.

 

[SSGSAD]

If YOU think you are in danger of great bodily harm ..... DEFEND YOURSELF !!!!!

Make sure you let it be known, that this guy, is an EXPERIENCED FIGHTER .....

IANAL, and I did not sleep at Holiday Inn, last night .....

 

[bwframe]

You might get away with shooting the aggressor, but it's real roll of the dice. You will be portrayed as the guy who brought a gun into a fist fight over a girl. You might win in court, but it could cost your life savings and maybe your job. Even a solid witnessed perfect "good" shoot could go through to harm others, let alone any misses.

I'd look at the whole picture to figure the best avoidance.
How did the ex figure out where you folks were?
Why not go back into the bar and alert security, call a cab, call the cops?

 

[Gluemanz28]

I agree with bwframe.

Take a look at the big picture. I would suggest going someplace else to unwind and enjoy the conversation of your female friend. If the ex starts to follow you around then take it to the next level.

 

[Southbendfamily]

find a new friend,

 

[croy]

Find a new friend or go some where he can't find you.

 

[Black Cloud]

Perhaps your friend should file a report or even get a restraining order just to have something on record. Could come in handy later on down the road.

 

[ghuns]

find a new friend,

Who says chivalry is dead.

 

[bocefus78]

That's when you have bar security bounce the loser off premises and go on about your night. Why on earth would you stand there and let him cause a scene?
Then if he follows you around afterwards, you already have witnesses that he was bothering you. I've done exactly this, and it ended it forever.

 

[ZenMaster]

The reason I dont drink is because alcohol reduces or eliminates ones ability to handle emergency situations.

Getting a buzz and pulling out a gun....Id rather get my ass kicked.

Its a good idea to learn to defend yourself with your bare hands.

 

[KG1]

Just for the record. I'd rather not get my ass kicked. That's not to say that I would'nt try to use other means to defuse the situation first.

 

[halfmileharry]

I'm going to be an obvious prick here. IF you don't know when to pull and use a weapon you shouldn't be carrying one. All situations are different so your mind better be right.
You're asking legalities?
I'd be asking how to avoid these situations if it were me.

 

[scoutsniper]

I'm going to be an obvious prick here. IF you don't know when to pull and use a weapon you shouldn't be carrying one. All situations are different so your mind better be right.
You're asking legalities?
I'd be asking how to avoid these situations if it were me.

+1 don't ask how to hide behind your weapon. Ask how to avoid being put in that situation in the first place. Good Friends are hard to find but sometimes they have to much baggage. I'd have her solve the issue with the asshat before I hangout agian.

 

[jgreiner]

One thing I would consider...and that is NOT drinking at all until he goes away while you are out with her. any booze in your system will NOT be in your favor if something does happen. Just a word of advise. For what it's worth.

 

[Indyhd]

Obviously this is a situation between him and her and you are just a bystander. She needs to take some sort of action if he is following her around and causing issues. At the time You should have taken her and walked back into the establishment where there would be a multitude of witnesses, and she could have called the police. The next step after there is a written report of harassment would be a restraining order if the situation continues.

 

[Drail]

Staying out of bars goes a long way to staying out of jail. Going to a bar with a gun can get you into a really bad situation.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Who says chivalry is dead.

There may be a time when that's the right call, though. We had some friends that got into a violent domestic situation and I told my wife we weren't having either of them over, weren't seeing either of them, weren't hanging out with either of them, until they got their situation sorted. One, I'm not bringing violence to my house or to my life. Two, you pick sides or get involved and you're the new common enemy when they patch things up and are all back in love before the next blow up. This situation may not be to that point, but it's certainly something to consider. Especially when you're 'just friends'. Maybe I'm just cynical, but not without reason. The number of domestic homicides with the new love, a parent, or a friend present and also killed is not insignificant in the total number of homicides per year.

 

[dirtybird]

One, I'm not bringing violence to my house or to my life. Two, you pick sides or get involved and you're the new common enemy when they patch things up and are all back in love before the next blow up. This situation may not be to that point, but it's certainly something to consider. Especially when you're 'just friends'.

+1

I wouldn't get involved in it, as it's bound to end badly either way, whether it ruins a friendship or you end up in jail. Not worth it imo. And, personally, I avoid bars. I'm sure a jury would weigh that into consideration if something were to happen and you needed to use a firearm in self defense. I try to avoid situations with that potential, and bars always raise the potential. Drink at home with friends.

 

[bwframe]

Are we sure this "just friends" date didn't intentionally let the ex know where they were? Maybe knowing that the OP would be carrying?