How many times would this guy have been shot here in Indy?

[jbombelli]

How very sad.

Yes. It is. If you really think garroting someone isn't threatening to that person, then I'm truly sad for you. Don't bother replying again, because I'm not going to address your inane position any further. If you're going to be THAT OBTUSE, it's not worth my time.

 

[Car Ramrod]

First of all, who knows what reactions were edited out. There could have been many more people who helped, but they didn't want to show that.

Second, look at the small glimpse you get of the attacker at 1:05 and compare it to the guy at the end who is recording it. I do believe it is the same person. It wouldn't surprise me if a some of the reactions were actors.

 

[Stinnett25]

That is crazy. The amount of people that act like they didn't see anything. Pitiful!

 

[CathyInBlue]

Did that one guy actually ask, "What time is it?" Or maybe it was just a half-hearted "Stop it."

 

[heofon]

If I were the actor pretending to choke the other actor and I got hit with flowers I would bust out laughing. "God bless you, ma'am, you got me!", I would say.

If this were a real scenario my first reaction was to hold the door open with my foot, draw my weapon and shout "Get out of the elevator, now!" If the guy doing the choking (I didn't see that there was a garrote until I watched it again) was the victim originally he would most likely stop. If the attacker didn't respond I would shoot him in the leg or some treatable spot. Why does it have to be the head or the heart? I would not wait for the cops to arrive. Or if I did, I would holster my weapon. I don't want to be seen as the perp.

After thinking about it, I decided a better option would be to grab the attacker and slam him against the wall and throw him out of the elevator. If he continued I would rear naked choke him until he passed out. If I could contain the situation I would call 911. Of course there are many possible outcomes and I would have to react to however the situation evolved. I would definitely try to find out who needed to be subdued before I did anything.

When I was young, I was walking into Kmart with my parents when these two big guys chased another big guy and tackled him. My mom yelled, "Honey, help that guy!" (My dad was a black belt in jujitsu and an ex-Military Police (with some cool stories)) My dad just said "Oh, I think they have it under control" as one guy held the runner down and the other guy put cuffs on him. He had just stolen a bunch of stuff.

Now if the attacker was stabbing the victim I would shoot him. Or if I saw him shoot the victim. If he was using a garrote I would check to see if the victim was James Bond or Inspector Clouseau.

Bottom line is you can always use more defensive training. I fear there are too many licensed, good-hearted people out there who do not know the best way to act.

 

[MikeDVB]

This thread is off the garrote.

 

[7urtle]

You do what you feel is right, and deal with the consequences afterwards.

Now if we stop hypothesizing this, the fact is, you would have shot a man, without trying to use less than lethal methods, resulting in the death of a young man who wasnt actually threatening anyone. Would you be in the wrong? I guess thats subjective, but your gonna have a hell of a time living with yourself after that.

This is why thought is always necessary when handling a firearm.. Theyre a stupidly high amount of responsibility.

I understand if your talking out of your ass, alot of people do that IN PERSON, let alone on the internet, but you continue to argue for a "shoot first worry later" mindset, and thats just not the way a responsible gun owner should be.

i havent seen what you would do?

 

[LP1]

To quote Red Green, this thread can be summed up with the three words that men find so difficult to say: "I don't know".

 

[Cheapdiesel]

That's a pretty big all-in bet, not knowing anything about "the attacker."

it's true but, if you life is on the line you have to be willing to do whatever it takes. Not only that you have to train for real situations. A few years ago I became very interested in defending a rear naked choke and all the variations because I thought that it was something my martial arts didn't teach a good counter for and the few counters I knew then seemed unreliable or too hooky to work during a real attack and if you have never been choked for real and it happens the first time you don't have any room to panic. So, I have practiced and this particular situation seemed interesting to me. I think the attacker as a distinct advantage in this situation because of the flexible weapon and coverage around the arteries and the windpipe. The counter would have to be fast and devastating. I think it would be fun to give it a shot. However, it is dangerous to practice these for both participants.

 

[Cheapdiesel]

Ok, so you didn't respond to the actual statement in jbombelli's post, which I bolded for you. The discussion isn't taking the guy out, it's reversing the roles so that when I, as a gun-toting INGOer, open the elevator door, it appears that YOU are the aggressor and the person that may or may not get shot. Up thread, there's a ton of "what if" you shoot the wrong guy because the defender has gained the upper hand and reversed the roles.

I have no doubt that, in 10secs, someone could make the original attacker stop his attack, but doing so in the way described in bold above shifts your role from the defender to the aggressor.

Sorry I had to leave. Ok First things first. You have to disable the attacker before you can do anything else. So, we may be in agreement. I think

 

[twfshelton]

What you guys are forgetting that you walked in to a situation ALREADY in progress. You don't know if the guy getting choked was the bad guy getting beat up when the choker was defending himself.

You don't shoot in situations like this UNLESS you were there at the start and is a witness on how it escalated.

The best action on this is just to call 911 and be a witness.

Can't believe the reaction here is shoot first. SMFH.

I concur, stopping any unknown situation with lethal force can ruin your and your family's lives. And sitting in prison for possibly shooting the wrong person........I would think a kick to the face to stop the action, then possibly holding both people at gun point till police arrived to sort things out makes a bit more sense.

 

[jbombelli]

it's true but, if you life is on the line you have to be willing to do whatever it takes. Not only that you have to train for real situations. A few years ago I became very interested in defending a rear naked choke and all the variations because I thought that it was something my martial arts didn't teach a good counter for and the few counters I knew then seemed unreliable or too hooky to work during a real attack and if you have never been choked for real and it happens the first time you don't have any room to panic. So, I have practiced and this particular situation seemed interesting to me. I think the attacker as a distinct advantage in this situation because of the flexible weapon and coverage around the arteries and the windpipe. The counter would have to be fast and devastating. I think it would be fun to give it a shot. However, it is dangerous to practice these for both participants.

Yeah. Dangerous to the point that I'm not about to be either guy in that training situation. Maybe someone out there makes kydex neck armor or something. That might help. But I certainly wouldn't put a garrote around someone's neck and crank it down WITHOUT neck armor! Unless of course I wanted to murder him.

Sorry I had to leave. Ok First things first. You have to disable the attacker before you can do anything else. So, we may be in agreement. I think

I agree. And once you've disabled the attacker, in order to get out of the garrote, there's really no need to put it around HIS neck and strangle him. If you do that, you're no longer defending yourself.

I can't stop laughing at all the people who are trying to find ways to say that you can strangle someone with a garrote in self defense, and hence by shooting the guy with the garrote you somehow shot the wrong guy.

 

[danielson]

why would you shoot him? If he saw you pull a gun he would probably throw his hands up, not become a threat to you...

I honestly dont know if I would pull my gun or just kick him in the face... I mean his hands were occupied, and at the second I saw him, posed NO threat to me.

I really dont know... I dont think anyone does. Unless they've been in a high stress situation.

i havent seen what you would do?

I wouldnt come on a forum and toot my own horn.

 

[jbombelli]

I wouldnt come on a forum and toot my own horn.

No, but you'll sure show up on a forum and tell others what THEY should do, and insult THEIR decisions if they don't align with YOURS (which you won't share), right?

 

[danielson]

I thought you were done talking to me?

I kinda liked it that way, I think we should go back to that.

 

[jbombelli]

I thought you were done talking to me?

I kinda liked it that way, I think we should go back to that.

Of course you do. You don't like being shown how wrong you are.

 

[danielson]

lol

 

[Tanfodude]

Yeah. Dangerous to the point that I'm not about to be either guy in that training situation. Maybe someone out there makes kydex neck armor or something. That might help. But I certainly wouldn't put a garrote around someone's neck and crank it down WITHOUT neck armor! Unless of course I wanted to murder him.



I agree. And once you've disabled the attacker, in order to get out of the garrote, there's really no need to put it around HIS neck and strangle him. If you do that, you're no longer defending yourself.

I can't stop laughing at all the people who are trying to find ways to say that you can strangle someone with a garrote in self defense, and hence by shooting the guy with the garrote you somehow shot the wrong guy.

And how would you go by in doing that? In the elevator? With nothing else around? If you got a hold of the garrote, maybe the defender should be like "Uh, I shouldn't use this to knock this guy out coz I remember jbombelli saying that it'll be an attempted murder". I guess the attackers next action once getting overpowered will be "Hey, you beat me. You win. Don't need to get physical with me now since I won't attack you anymore."

I guess jbombelli has never been attacked physically coz he has time to think all of these through coz he knows what he'll DEFINTELY do in these circumstances. SHOOT first, deal with the consequences later.

Nice to know that there are people like you walking around with a firearm that has this mentality.

See, it's ok to have a disagreement in certain topics. But to have a mentality to shoot first, ask questions later is not even debatable. LEO should prolly do that do when they encounter situations like that since they won't get prosecuted.

 

[jbombelli]

And how would you go by in doing that? In the elevator? With nothing else around? If you got a hold of the garrote, maybe the defender should be like "Uh, I shouldn't use this to knock this guy out coz I remember jbombelli saying that it'll be an attempted murder". I guess the attackers next action once getting overpowered will be "Hey, you beat me. You win. Don't need to get physical with me now since I won't attack you anymore."

I guess jbombelli has never been attacked physically coz he has time to think all of these through coz he knows what he'll DEFINTELY do in these circumstances. SHOOT first, deal with the consequences later.

Nice to know that there are people like you walking around with a firearm that has this mentality.

See, it's ok to have a disagreement in certain topics. But to have a mentality to shoot first, ask questions later is not even debatable. LEO should prolly do that do when they encounter situations like that since they won't get prosecuted.

Still trying to convince people that you can strangle someone with a garrote in self defense?

 

[tom1025]

Still trying to convince people that you can strangle someone with a garrote in self defense?

I still don't think garrotes are as dangerous as you say. I tried to Google statistics for annual deaths and nothing came up. But now if you Google ligature that's a whole new ball game.