Hypocrisy: An armed cop in every school

[GodFearinGunTotin]

What I don't get is where do we get our security for malls, theaters, or any other public place that could have a mass shooting? Instead of going after the actual cause of the problem, both sides want to give some warm fuzzy feeling that won't do . Better mental health treatment and ending gun free zones would do a much better job than securing our schools with armed guards or the National Guard.

Agreed. Changing the conversation from regurgitated "gun control" measures is what we need. With persistence, the other will follow...hopefully.

 

[45calibre]

they might as well have sold us out. their response was more government.

 

[Project972]

and now for the good news. isrel has been doing it for years, good enough for me. plantation unhappy if somebody falls off cliff, lose many bennies, party crying also.

 

[indygoat]

While I'm not sure if the school shield program is the answer, at least the NRA is offering a solution that has a better chance to work than gun control!

 

[Captain Morgan]

Now the left is stating there were armed guards at Columbine school and that didn't stop anything. They just love to twist things around to say what they want. the real story of what happened is here DEPUTIES_TEXT despite what the media is touting right now. problem is, most people won't read this link, they'll just read the news article that doesn't tell the whole truth. They're also stating that armed guards were at Virginia Tech. The true fact is that Virginia Tech actually caused law enforcement to reevaluate and re-write their policy on response to active shooter situations. More is known now about how to respond to active shooter situations than was known then. Training and information is completely different than it was back then. But the media won't tell you that.

Funny thing is, the irony in this is hilarious. CT has an AWB and it didn't stop the shooter. But of course, the liberals won't tell you that either.

 

[Ted]

Posse Comitatus only applies if the Guard is on federal duty. Otherwise they are state assets thus can be used by local law enforcement. Also the PCA does not cover the Marines or the Navy, only the Army and Air Force.

IIRC, the National Guard can only be activated by state assets under order of the Governor. As Barbara Boxer has introduced a bill to this effect into Congress, wouldn't the NG be considered a federal asset for such a mission?

I'm familiar with PSA regarding Army and Air Force, and also know that DoD directives prohibit Navy and Marine Corps intervention in a manner consistent with the act.

There are a lot of Guard members who could use the work. After all most teachers do not have the balls to carry a gun. Just remember that the left hates the military as much as it hates gun owners.

I would love to have work for Guard members, but I'm not a fan of armed military personnel doing much of anything outside of the warrior realm, simply because they aren't trained in LE.

Look at CodePink.org. A feminist organization that is focused on banning war, guns and most male behavior. Doubt that they would like the Guard in schools. Did you see their protests at the NRA? Basically they use ambush tactics, avoiding any direct contact. Hard to talk to them. At best they love to scream at people.

Much like all such liberals, they're cowards.

 

[indygoat]

Much like all such liberals, they're cowards.

Careful they will nag you to death.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

I oppose this idea, not on principle ( it IS after all, a LEOs job to protect people) but on tactical/strategic grounds.

As all us here know, the power of concealed carry is in the fact that it is an unpredictable variable. I remember back in the police academy when they taught us to be "systematically unsystematic." That is to say, don't eat at the same restaurant at the same time every time, vary where you stop to grab a cup of Joe, do NOTHING that would permit anyone to be able to anticipate your movements.

A copper permanently assigned to a school is tempting and makes sense to the uninformed owing to the old "trained professional" claptrap (a load of crap that would be better addressed in another thread).

But an officer assigned in such a way will be become not only complacent but predictable. I can't say how much of a pain in the ass it was for me as a police lieutenant to assure that an officer assigned on a permanent post, even for a brief time, would stay on his toes.

An officer assigned permanently to a school is not a deterrent, he is a contingency to be planned for. And if he moves his bowels at the same time every day in the same crapper, or goes to talk to the principal's big-boobed secretary at predictable times, he is EASY to plan for.

However, if a school board announces "from now on, some of our staff and teachers will be carrying concealed handguns; we're not saying WHO they are, WHERE they are, or HOW MANY there are" you're talking a whole new ball game.

 

[gungirl65]

My son's high school has a Sheriff's office in the building. I'm glad they are there.

 

[Captain Morgan]

However, if a school board announces "from now on, some of our staff and teachers will be carrying concealed handguns; we're not saying WHO they are, WHERE they are, or HOW MANY there are" you're talking a whole new ball game.

I will not dispute this statement. However, I could certainly deal with TEMPORARY officer through the end of the school year until the various staff members get proper training for the start of the next school year. It's going to take more than just one course to be properly trained to stop an active shooter. Frankly, there may be some who are already trained and already licensed to carry. This would be an issue of simply verifying their training and granting them permission to be armed in school. Training and drills should occur once every couple months, at a minimum.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I oppose this idea, not on principle ( it IS after all, a LEOs job to protect people) but on tactical/strategic grounds.

As all us here know, the power of concealed carry is in the fact that it is an unpredictable variable. I remember back in the police academy when they taught us to be "systematically unsystematic." That is to say, don't eat at the same restaurant at the same time every time, vary where you stop to grab a cup of Joe, do NOTHING that would permit anyone to be able to anticipate your movements.

A copper permanently assigned to a school is tempting and makes sense to the uninformed owing to the old "trained professional" claptrap (a load of crap that would be better addressed in another thread).

But an officer assigned in such a way will be become not only complacent but predictable. I can't say how much of a pain in the ass it was for me as a police lieutenant to assure that an officer assigned on a permanent post, even for a brief time, would stay on his toes.

An officer assigned permanently to a school is not a deterrent, he is a contingency to be planned for. And if he moves his bowels at the same time every day in the same crapper, or goes to talk to the principal's big-boobed secretary at predictable times, he is EASY to plan for.

However, if a school board announces "from now on, some of our staff and teachers will be carrying concealed handguns; we're not saying WHO they are, WHERE they are, or HOW MANY there are" you're talking a whole new ball game.

I agree with your point. Add to that the possibility of legally armed parents or other visitors that might be at a school at any given time doing their day-to-day business would also add to the deference factor. However, in not sure if the politics is ready to go there yet.

 

[Trooper]

IIRC, the National Guard can only be activated by state assets under order of the Governor. As Barbara Boxer has introduced a bill to this effect into Congress, wouldn't the NG be considered a federal asset for such a mission?

I'm familiar with PSA regarding Army and Air Force, and also know that DoD directives prohibit Navy and Marine Corps intervention in a manner consistent with the act.



I would love to have work for Guard members, but I'm not a fan of armed military personnel doing much of anything outside of the warrior realm, simply because they aren't trained in LE.



Much like all such liberals, they're cowards.

All law enforcement comes under the militia. In the old days (colonial thru the western frontier), the militia was not only the military but the sheriff's posse, the fire brigade such that we had citizens protecting our communities, not professionals.

What I dislike is the movement from citizen-soldiers to professionals. Cops now see themselves as the warrior class, elite above their peers. It would be far better if we had mandatory service (from 17 to 45) for all males in the Guard. Then use the Guard instead of a professional police force.

As for Boxer's proposal, if it is paid for under title 32 funds or DHS funds then it does not mean that the Guard is federalized. Only if they are paid under title 10 funds. We use the Guard now to provide Intel for the police and it is legal. Besides Congress can modify the PCA to make it legal for the military to do domestic law enforcement. The restrictions are only laws, not constitutional.

 

[repeter1977]

I agree with arming the teachers. I do think if random teachers and staff were armed, AND possibly a police officer in the building would really reduce reaction time and be a wonderful deterrent. As I was recruiting, most of the high schools had a police officer stationed in the school, however the Junior High and Elementary, well, they had the glass doors locked. You know, cause those are hard to break, or break into. Just like fire equipment, if its around, trained for, and everyone knows what do to, then the number of fatalities will start dropping. Look at how fire drills are conducted, and all the fire defense in layers. We need to apply the same to active shooter scenarios in our schools already. We need to get people to stop trying to wish the situation away, and do something about it.

 

[Ted]

All law enforcement [STRIKE]comes[/STRIKE] came under the militia. In the old days (colonial thru the western frontier), the militia was not only the military but the sheriff's posse, the fire brigade such that we had citizens protecting our communities, not professionals.

FTFY.

The militia, as originally perceived, is inactive today. If it were otherwise, militia would drill upon the public square as did during the time and place of Benjamin Franklin.

What I dislike is the movement from citizen-soldiers to professionals. Cops now see themselves as the warrior class, elite above their peers. It would be far better if we had mandatory service (from 17 to 45) for all males in the Guard. Then use the Guard instead of a professional police force.

Agreed that cops need to focus on being cops, though I understand the SWAT mentality that seems to be on the rise.

Soldiers are warriors, not cops on the beat. They aren't trained to do such, and shouldn't be expected to do such.

I am, however, in favor of mandatory military service of both males and females.

As for Boxer's proposal, if it is paid for under title 32 funds or DHS funds then it does not mean that the Guard is federalized. Only if they are paid under title 10 funds. We use the Guard now to provide Intel for the police and it is legal. Besides Congress can modify the PCA to make it legal for the military to do domestic law enforcement. The restrictions are only laws, not constitutional.

I'm presuming that you've read Boxer's bill. I couldn't find it. Would you please cite the link to the entire text?

The last thing this country requires, is military occupation by military troops, regardless of who is paying for what and when. As stated before, they are not adequately trained in LE....and I'm incredibly suspicious of the true motives of anyone who would push for such a concept.

 

[beararms1776]

LaPierre: "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

He was immediately demonized by the left

Of course. You didn't expect the liberal media and the like to let such an intelligent statement go unscathed did you.

 

[karatejoe]

The State took Prayer out of school. They said not to speak of God. This is whats left as I take my daughter to school. God be with her.

 

[9lock]

they might as well have sold us out. their response was more government.

Thank you!
Everyone ranting about TOO much government, the nanny state yada yada, Yet you want more. make up your freakin mind! One of you mentioned a sheriff office in his kids school, HELL why don't we just move the G D recruiters in every school too! YEAH! We could start another Hilter youth program. The schools are gun free which makes them an easy target with unarmed faculty, the court system has stated cops have no obligation to protect the public, when you get around cops they want disarm you because of (our saftey) meaning "them" AND (did I happen to mention) the cops have no obligation to protect the public. And this NRA Hole is further promoting the police state! Hypocrisy! YES very much so. I see it on this forum consistantly and not sure why, I am assuming the majority of the people posting on here are under the age of 35 and have not seen life prior 1980 when there was STILL factories around vs now fighting over min wage Service jobs. So I ask you nicely, PLEASE! WAKEUP! Stop complaining about your gun rights if you intend on going along with these Domestic enemies.

 

[sepe]

The State took Prayer out of school. They said not to speak of God. This is whats left as I take my daughter to school. God be with her.

Nobody is saying people can't pray in school. It shouldn't be forced prayer. Some of us have different beliefs and if yours are to be respected, all others should be as well.

 

[Trooper]

FTFY.

The militia, as originally perceived, is inactive today. If it were otherwise, militia would drill upon the public square as did during the time and place of Benjamin Franklin.



Agreed that cops need to focus on being cops, though I understand the SWAT mentality that seems to be on the rise.

Soldiers are warriors, not cops on the beat. They aren't trained to do such, and shouldn't be expected to do such.

I am, however, in favor of mandatory military service of both males and females.



I'm presuming that you've read Boxer's bill. I couldn't find it. Would you please cite the link to the entire text?

The last thing this country requires, is military occupation by military troops, regardless of who is paying for what and when. As stated before, they are not adequately trained in LE....and I'm incredibly suspicious of the true motives of anyone who would push for such a concept.

Citizen soldiers are not military occupation. Rather it would us policing ourselves. The police and fire are the militia. Their roots are from the militia. And if we had mandatory service, not a draft, then it would be into the Guard and not active service.

The military has a large number of troops trained for police work and for running local government. Army Civil Affairs (CA) are reservists who do everything from running local government to sweeping civilians off of the battlefield. It is their civilian skills that make them important in this mission. Military Police are trained to do law enforcement and to deal with civilians. It would not be hard to take Guard MP officers and NCOs, run them through the state police academy then give them STATE law enforcement powers. If activated, those badges and credentials would go back to the states.

As for Boxer, I am just assuming what she is proposing. I know the law thus it could only be three types of funding. Title 32 covers DHS and state funds. Title 10 is active duty which can not be used under PCA for law enforcement. Of course congress could just change the law and get rid of the PCA.

 

[Dave-O]

This was exactly my point with the thread just how screwed up is this country, if you go to million moms Facebook and read the comments you would have thought he said sacrificing a child was the answer. They are furious over it.

But god forbid we find anymore with info on benghazi libya because more armed guards would have saved those 4 lives