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I got shot
- Thread starter Libertarian01
- Start date
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Vitamink,
I will go with beer bottle size if you do not mind. I am a beer snob and do mostly imports so bottle over can.
Rvb,
I was shot. at the time I did not think a 9x18mm would be out of her ability but would have more recoil than the 22.
She was aimed downrange at the time. I was not placing my hand in front but rather over the frame so just in case it would not come back on her. I did not want her hit by recoil at all. Somewhere in there I was wrong. Freely admitted.
88GT,
Feel free to pile on me. If we do not look critically at our mistakes we are doomed to repeat them. See Obama for evidence
..
Chip,
She is nine with a small frame of body.
Big,
Didn't have a rifle. The lesson was not planned. Her dad brought it up as a last minute idea. All I had were the two pistols so that is what I went with.
Cyprant,
Gunshot through and through at less than one foot. Powder burns with bullet. Best of both worlds for me!
Trigger,
My goal was over the frame ONLY! My bad...
88E3,
You are darn right this could NEVER happen to me. I am boring. I try to be safe. Naturally this sort of thing only happens to other people. *My wake up call arrived!*
Patience,
Tomorrow. I am posting from phone in hospital. When I get in front of real computer you will see blood, gore and powder burns.
at 9yrs old she should be able to handle 9mm fine assuming she is taught decent technique. there's nothing in your story that tells me she can't handle it, or didn't. you may not have intended to put your hand in front of the gun, but it sounds like that's what happened. a bullet did not pass through your hand if your hand was over the "frame."
please don't take it personal, just trying to understand what happened. my offer stands.
-rvb
Sorry to hear, but glad you seem to be handling things well. Prayers for a speedy recovery.
One question: Do you think it would have helped to only load one round in the magazine? or am I not fully understanding what happened? (Im assuming she fired, then fired again while the gun was in recoil and caught your hand) When I work with new shooters and a semi auto, I typically only load 1 round in the magazine until they get a feel for it.
One question: Do you think it would have helped to only load one round in the magazine? or am I not fully understanding what happened? (Im assuming she fired, then fired again while the gun was in recoil and caught your hand) When I work with new shooters and a semi auto, I typically only load 1 round in the magazine until they get a feel for it.
Fair enough, just curious. I had a feeling that was the reason. And it worries me. But your kids, your choices. Better to err on the side of caution than be lazy and idiotic and have a tragedy result.
Fair enough, just curious. I had a feeling that was the reason. And it worries me. But your kids, your choices. Better to err on the side of caution than be lazy and idiotic and have a tragedy result.
I'm curious: why does it worry you?
If there's a better approach, I'm certainly all ears. Like I said: I'm new to this. I grew up *around* guns, but my dad only had shotguns until I was about high school age, and I never got (or at least: don't remember getting) this type of training. The first time I ever shot a handgun was with my brother in law at Ft. Bliss, three or four years ago.
1. Children in general are capable of handling more than we give them. I believe as a society we have infantilized our children. Continuing to do so won't help. I believe it is a symptom and a cause of the degradation of society. In all facets of our society, I don't think we ask enough of our children, and I think we coddle them for far too long. I know not every child is ready for shooting at X years old, based on maturity or physical ability. I'm not putting an age on it. But it pains me to see people put an age on it without any consideration. "When he's 10, I'll introduce him to shooting." Why wait if the only reason for waiting is because he hasn't drawn breath for a long enough time? Can he handle the responsibility of an introductory lesson (just an introductory lesson, where it goes after that should be determined by his behavior during the intro lesson)? Can he physically manipulate the firearm in a safe manner? If the answer is 'yes,' I think parents have a responsibility to introduce firearms as early as possible.
2. For generations, the only instruction available for children was from family. I am concerned that we are moving toward a standard that won't accept any training/instruction unless it came from a "firearm instructor." Worse, I'm afraid that the basics of safe handling and general marksmanship will no longer be acceptable in the public eye. And that will have repercussions on the ability to exercise the carry aspect of firearms. We're already there to some extent, as evidenced by the many states that require formal instruction before getting the permission slip. To build on that, the delegation of instruction to an elite/specialized group of people promotes laziness in others because it creates the paradigm that someone else is responsible for teaching the basics. (There's ample of evidence of this in schools for academics and values/morality.)
Full disclosure:
1. My older was 4 when he first fired a firearm. My younger was 3 (because big brother was 6 at the time and he just wanted to do it too.) My older one is eight, but he fired an SR22 completely on his own at age 6. I clearly believe in early exposure and experience to firearms.
2. I don't buy the hype that training is all it's cracked up to be. I think everyone should have good solid instruction in safe handling and general marksmanship. And if one chooses to seek that instruction through a formal training experience, so be it. But I refuse to accept the premise that parents (or even friends as I have introduced adults to shooting) aren't enough to teach their children. Hell, I had been shooting for 6 months before I took my first instruction class. I wasn't going to win any competitions, but the instructor said I was good to go, and at or above the level of a general introductory class. IOW, I had attained the proficiency in safety and marksmanship that one would expect to achieve in an introductory class without any formal instruction.
I also don't buy the premise that the exercise of our right to carry comes with anything more than the care not to be negligent. Unlike others, I don't believe that the standard of "not be negligent" is anything more than following simple safety rules. I don't like the movement to equate responsibility with higher level training standards. I understand the personal desire to want to be better in case one is called to employ the firearm in self defense so that the risk to others is minimized. But I do not believe that anybody is under any legal or moral obligation to pursue additional training.
I am not criticizing your choices. Just saddened by what I see is the general outlook on firearms in our society these days. My way certainly isn't better. I would never suggest that just because my children started shooting at that age that all children should start at that age regardless. And I will be the first to admit that while I don't believe someone needs to pay to get good instruction, that may be the only way to get it. So Joe could introduce Billy Bob to firearms, but be wholly inadequate in terms of teaching safety and general marksmanship. On the other hand, Steve could introduce Larry to firearms and be spectacularly successful (assuming Larry is a good student) at teaching safety and marksmanship.
@88GT:
Thanks for the lengthy and reasoned response. From my perspective, the irony is that, for the vast majority of people I've discussed it with, even starting at 7 was viewed as too early. But in my judgement, it was the appropriate age for my children to begin learning how to handle firearms. I introduced them to firearms much earlier, showing firearms to them, explaining to them why I had them and what they were for, telling them where I kept them, and instructing them never to touch them until I had trained them how to handle them. (I believe that being open and honest alleviates issues of curiosity and the enticement of the taboo. It also helps that I implicitly trust that my children are obedient, because we've trained them to be so.)
At 7, my oldest has been eager to learn, and enjoys going to the range with me. My youngest (5), still doesn't show such interest, and I don't push it. So, I'm pretty comfortable regarding the age-appropriateness.
I understand and agree with most of the concerns you expressed, especially about the general societal trend of coddling children. I have no intention of following that trend. I agree about training as well. I've never had anything more than the basic instruction in a CCW course, which was no different from the informal instruction I got from my dad, brother-in-law, and others. When I mentioned not being an instructor, I was primarily referring to my ability to recognize when my girls are ready to handle handguns versus long guns. Much like everything else with parenting: we don't know how we're going to know what or how to do something, before it actually happens. But somehow, we manage to figure out when to move to solid foods, when to attempt potty training, etc. I'm trusting that parental intuition combined with appropriate caution and wisdom will be enough in this regard, as well.
I especially agree with you about the placement of prerequisites on the exercise of natural rights. "Care not to be negligent" - I'm going to steal that.
And don't worry; I didn't take anything you said as criticism. I appreciate the perspective, which is why I asked.
Thanks for the lengthy and reasoned response. From my perspective, the irony is that, for the vast majority of people I've discussed it with, even starting at 7 was viewed as too early. But in my judgement, it was the appropriate age for my children to begin learning how to handle firearms. I introduced them to firearms much earlier, showing firearms to them, explaining to them why I had them and what they were for, telling them where I kept them, and instructing them never to touch them until I had trained them how to handle them. (I believe that being open and honest alleviates issues of curiosity and the enticement of the taboo. It also helps that I implicitly trust that my children are obedient, because we've trained them to be so.)
At 7, my oldest has been eager to learn, and enjoys going to the range with me. My youngest (5), still doesn't show such interest, and I don't push it. So, I'm pretty comfortable regarding the age-appropriateness.
I understand and agree with most of the concerns you expressed, especially about the general societal trend of coddling children. I have no intention of following that trend. I agree about training as well. I've never had anything more than the basic instruction in a CCW course, which was no different from the informal instruction I got from my dad, brother-in-law, and others. When I mentioned not being an instructor, I was primarily referring to my ability to recognize when my girls are ready to handle handguns versus long guns. Much like everything else with parenting: we don't know how we're going to know what or how to do something, before it actually happens. But somehow, we manage to figure out when to move to solid foods, when to attempt potty training, etc. I'm trusting that parental intuition combined with appropriate caution and wisdom will be enough in this regard, as well.
I especially agree with you about the placement of prerequisites on the exercise of natural rights. "Care not to be negligent" - I'm going to steal that.
And don't worry; I didn't take anything you said as criticism. I appreciate the perspective, which is why I asked.
Just being an armchair QB here, but it seems that the first shot raised the gun under recoil and a subsequent round was squeezed off as the gun was raised. If his hand was in "hover above the gun" mode as to keep it from flipping back, it'd be quite easy to end up with the muzzle of the tiny pistol aimed right at his hand with just a modicum of movement from horizontal.
Sounds to me like intentions were golden - but execution was...lacking.
I remember a time when I let my soon-to-be 9-ish year old nephew (no stranger to guns) shoot my .40 S&W Walther P99. First shot scared him so bad he dropped the pistol & went white in the face...then ran to his dad. I KNOW that I loaded two rounds in that magazine and I thought that the recoil of #1 freaked him out so bad that shot #2 was squeezed off sympathetically and I didn't hear it somehow. He wasn't shot... just dropped the pistol. There wasn't another shot in the magazine. So either he shot 2x and I missed it though being inches from the pistol (I was kneeling next to him) or I really did load only one. Regardless, I'm quite glad that I didn't put my hand over the gun to help him. Could've quite easily have been ME typing out a very similar story to what OP has posted.
Sorry to hear that man, I'm right down the road from that hospital, if you need something message me!
halfmileharry
Grandmaster
I'll keep MY fingers crossed for a safe recovery. Glad you're ok Doug and heal up quick.Hey Now,
I am the one deserving of sympathy or mockery - depending on your disposition.
Doug
IndyGunworks
Grandmaster
Glad it wasn't worse than what it was, and I hope you have as good of a recovery as possible. Thanks for sharing, its a wakeup call to all of us.
remauto1187
Shooter
A 9mm to the finger? 
Ouch! That f'n hurt! 
I only have 2 questions. (1) Did you pee yourself? (2) Did you say any colorful words or even make up any after the little girl shot you in the finger?
Ouch! That f'n hurt! I only have 2 questions. (1) Did you pee yourself? (2) Did you say any colorful words or even make up any after the little girl shot you in the finger?
The Bubba Effect
Grandmaster
Dang man, I wish you a speedy recovery.
The girl didn't get hurt and you're tough enough so I know you'll be OK. At her wedding you can tell this story and lauh.
Be good man
The girl didn't get hurt and you're tough enough so I know you'll be OK. At her wedding you can tell this story and lauh.
Be good man
Glad you're not going to lose the finger. Don't beat yourself up over this. Feces occurs sometimes without explanation. My father-in-law still has no idea why he grabbed the business end of a chain saw I was running. Fortunately it was idling and only resulted in a few stitches. Much like your accident, there's no plausible explanation. Most people just won't accept "my hand was in the wrong place". 
