I just luv gubmint

[Ingomike]

here's an issue I have.... Only a city dweller will really see much of the bold portion. Rural, especially non-paved roads, you MIGHT get it graded twice a year. Sheriff's dept covers "policiing" and the overflow by staties or if a local town close by has someone free. Fire dept are all volunteer. We are offered but a small fraction of the "benefits" anyone in a city/town see, but yet are still taxed at the same rates and values increase at the same percentages as everyone else.

That was my beef with Whitestown and their forced annexation ideas. If you were actually providing me with services, then we can talk about raising rates. But they weren't, and they were requiring we followed the same rules as those in town (no open burning, no discharging firearms etc).

You are describing an area in transition, watched that occur many times, and yes it sucks. I believe the annexed should remain at township level taxes until the cities or towns provide full services. This incentivizes them to do it quickly or not at all.

Property tax is theft. We are forced to pay the kings ransom for the privilege of living on his property. Don't pay and you're in the stockades with your property siezed.

Again, who should pay for what benefits the property?

 

[Cameramonkey]

Do you realize what your county surveyor and drainage people do? They keep the water moving that could just park itself on your land. You told us about the wet spot across the street, that could be just the beginning of what it could be without drainage management which works to keep your property dry. Who benefits from that? You do. Then for areas that need extra drainage they build infrastructure to Handke that and may charge a drainage assessment on top of the regular tax.

Who should pay for that?

The people served through the rural drainage ditch program. In Hendricks county, my mom pays above and beyond her property taxes for ditch/tile maintenance. Yet her yard still floods for a month at a time. I believe water is standing now. They know her tile collapsed, and they've TALKED about fixing her tile since before covid. They've surveyed and staked the area twice now but never return to actually come back to do the work.

And to make matters worse, the one way severely excess water used to get away was flowing over the road at the lowest point of her property. When it got emergency level bad it would flow over the road into the field across the way and that ditch/field tile would carry it on to the ditch on the far side of the field where her tile goes.

But they repaved her road last year that used to be tar and chip. When they did, the low spot (100 feet long or so) was leveled out and they added an additional 12 inches of asphalt at that lowest point. Street dept supervisor claimed they laid the same thickness down the entire road, but you can clearly see its 5" higher at her driveway, and 12" higher at the low spot.
I'm actually worried about her house for the first time in my life. At the worst, water would rise to about 30' away from her foundation. Based on the lack of rise toward her house, and the addition of the roadbed height, I think her foundation is less than a 12" rise from where the water used to stop. I dont think it will stop there anymore, and after severe rains, she may end up with a moat.

/rant

 

[tim87tr]

That was a good post. I do question parts of the quote. Obviously tiny homes would be taxed less than a McMansion but a barndominium on five acres will be taxed similarly to a house and barn of the same size as I have seen. Manufactured homes also are taxed based on size and quality. It all comes down to what you have to tax, so if you are suggesting that folks live with less to be taxed less, right on, but there there are no “higher taxed” areas, just higher valued areas…

That's probably right on barndomeniums. In Illinois, single wide manufactured are taxed with a formula called privilege tax. 1000 sf is only around $100/yr.

Yes I'm suggesting if you don't like the tax game, ask yourself if that standard of living is worth it? No need to be a wage slave unless that's important to an individual. And yes I was referring to lower values areas such as rural.

I disagree. Wife and I have been living well below our means, have had no debt for years and just paid cash for property in Florida because we have spent the last 20 years living below our means. We have several friends who have done the same (living below their means) and some have raised kids. It can be done very easily, even with inflation, markets going nuts and all. Both plan to not work at all in under 10 years and in 5 scaling back how much we work b

Which part of my post you disagree with? I think we agree actually. My comment on live like your grandparents was making a point with a gross generalization. Standard of living has a huge effect on retirement timeline. I completely agree on having no debt being a huge factor simultaneously.

 

[bobzilla]

You are describing an area in transition, watched that occur many times, and yes it sucks. I believe the annexed should remain at township level taxes until the cities or towns provide full services. This incentivizes them to do it quickly or not at all.


Again, who should pay for what benefits the property?

We just discussed this.... the "benefits" are negligible for rural dwellers that could easily be covered in sales tax, gas tax revenue etc.

 

[bobzilla]

That's probably right on barndomeniums. In Illinois, single wide manufactured are taxed with a formula called privilege tax. 1000 sf is only around $100/yr.

Yes I'm suggesting if you don't like the tax game, ask yourself if that standard of living is worth it? No need to be a wage slave unless that's important to an individual. And yes I was referring to lower values areas such as rural.


Which part of my post you disagree with? I think we agree actually. My comment on live like your grandparents was making a point with a gross generalization. Standard of living has a huge effect on retirement timeline. I completely agree on having no debt being a huge factor simultaneously.

Sorry, I thought you were saying that today it can't be done.

 

[Pepi]

A guy that lives 3 house down from me has a newer home, more sq footage, three car garage, and his assessment is 30k more than my home and his taxes are 150 dollars less than mine. I pay for three ditches at 10 bucks each and he only pays for one ditch???

 

[Ingomike]

We just discussed this.... the "benefits" are negligible for rural dwellers that could easily be covered in sales tax, gas tax revenue etc.

So by extension you believe others should pay for the drainage benefits the property owner receives?

I specified that because it directly impacts property owners only. Other things covered by property tax can certainly be debated. The removal of schools from property tax would cut property tax in half alone and should be. But then property tax is the main local tax people pay so the the issue is loss of local control of schools which we are losing anyway?

 

[Ingomike]

A guy that lives 3 house down from me has a newer home, more sq footage, three car garage, and his assessment is 30k more than my home and his taxes are 150 dollars less than mine. I pay for three ditches at 10 bucks each and he only pays for one ditch???

Have you asked why? There should be a map showing what properties are draining to each ditch?

 

[bobzilla]

So by extension you believe others should pay for the drainage benefits the property owner receives?

I specified that because it directly impacts property owners only. Other things covered by property tax can certainly be debated. The removal of schools from property tax would cut property tax in half alone and should be. But then property tax is the main local tax people pay so the the issue is loss of local control of schools which we are losing anyway?

and what drainage are we talking about? I've been here for 20 years and nothing has changed. No one has touched the ditches and I heard from the people that have been here for generations that the one ditch** that is there, was put in back in the 50's. That's a really long time to cover a one time cost don't you think? Build in the appropriate place and it's not really much of an issue. So again, what benefits?

** the one ditch on the other side of hte road that doesn't do anything.

 

[bobzilla]

A guy that lives 3 house down from me has a newer home, more sq footage, three car garage, and his assessment is 30k more than my home and his taxes are 150 dollars less than mine. I pay for three ditches at 10 bucks each and he only pays for one ditch???

I don't really give a **** what someone else pays. I'm not playing "keep up with the joneses" here. As long as I'm not in the same kind of brackets my east coast inlaws are paying, I'm fine.

 

[KLB]

and what drainage are we talking about? I've been here for 20 years and nothing has changed. No one has touched the ditches and I heard from the people that have been here for generations that the one ditch** that is there, was put in back in the 50's. That's a really long time to cover a one time cost don't you think? Build in the appropriate place and it's not really much of an issue. So again, what benefits?

** the one ditch on the other side of hte road that doesn't do anything.

The County came through and redid the ditch in front of our property around 10 years ago. Cut down trees, and dug it out. The extra water carried in the ditch caused back flushing from the culvert under the road which is slowly eroding the dirt into our pasture. A fence post is already hanging loose from it.

The best part is, the road floods even more than it did before they did their work.

 

[Ingomike]

and what drainage are we talking about? I've been here for 20 years and nothing has changed. No one has touched the ditches and I heard from the people that have been here for generations that the one ditch** that is there, was put in back in the 50's. That's a really long time to cover a one time cost don't you think? Build in the appropriate place and it's not really much of an issue. So again, what benefits?

** the one ditch on the other side of hte road that doesn't do anything.

For 200 years drainage has been a big issue, probably one of the earliest state and county issues, an issue that has been handled so well the public thinks it happens by magic.

History of Drainage In Indiana - Boone County, Indiana

boonecounty.in.gov

 

[Ingomike]

The County came through and redid the ditch in front of our property around 10 years ago. Cut down trees, and dug it out. The extra water carried in the ditch caused back flushing from the culvert under the road which is slowly eroding the dirt into our pasture. A fence post is already hanging loose from it.

The best part is, the road floods even more than it did before they did their work.

Have you contacted them?

 

[bobzilla]

The County came through and redid the ditch in front of our property around 10 years ago. Cut down trees, and dug it out. The extra water carried in the ditch caused back flushing from the culvert under the road which is slowly eroding the dirt into our pasture. A fence post is already hanging loose from it.

The best part is, the road floods even more than it did before they did their work.

reminds me of the ditch at the folks place. They came out and dug it all out with a trackhoe. Left a 6" ridge of dirt 10 inches wide along the edge of the road. I heard they were going to start a program to teach the water how to jump over those. That was 25 years ago, it hasn't gotten any better. Best part? It's literally on the side of a hill so the water automatically drains to the bottom without this massive ditch that it can't get to

 

[phylodog]

What makes this a tough issue is this brings two bedrock issues many of us a passionate about into conflict.

First we believe property should be able to be owned without further payment.

Second we believe each should pay for what they use.

The struggle is, we cannot have both on this.

Do you realize what your county surveyor and drainage people do? They keep the water moving that could just park itself on your land. You told us about the wet spot across the street, that could be just the beginning of what it could be without drainage management which works to keep your property dry. Who benefits from that? You do. Then for areas that need extra drainage they build infrastructure to Handke that and may charge a drainage assessment on top of the regular tax.

Who should pay for that?

Oh I’m paying for that, make no mistake. I just got notice of a rate increase, guess I’ll do the lot lizard thing and see if I can manage to keep my property.

 

[bobzilla]

For 200 years drainage has been a big issue, probably one of the earliest state and county issues, an issue that has been handled so well the public thinks it happens by magic.

History of Drainage In Indiana - Boone County, Indiana

boonecounty.in.gov

Parts of boone county are still flooded. Not for us. My house is 965ft asl. 300 feet south west of me that drops to 952ft. continues to flow towards the center of the field behind us.

 

[Ingomike]

Any of you having specific drainage issues we have an expert on that here at INGO, @ditcherman has helped folks here before.

 

[phylodog]

Any of you having specific drainage issues we have an expert on that here at INGO, @ditcherman has helped folks here before.

Shouldn't the County be handling that? Isn't that what we pay taxes for? I mean, the County didn't pay the $5000 to run a tile through my pasture last month either so I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the suggestion.

 

[Ingomike]

Shouldn't the County be handling that? Isn't that what we pay taxes for? I mean, the County didn't pay the $5000 to run a tile through my pasture last month either so I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the suggestion.

There are county responsibilities and private, just like the police have their responsibility and private security has theirs. I do not know the details nor have expertise in them, I do know that it is an important county function and I believe those that benefit from it should pay for it…

 

[phylodog]

There are county responsibilities and private, just like the police have their responsibility and private security has theirs. I do not know the details nor have expertise in them, I do know that it is an important county function and I believe those that benefit from it should pay for it…

Everyone benefits from it. Floodwater management is not a rural issue nor a property owner issue. Regardless of where you live, at least around here where it's flat, you're benefitting from water management in places miles and miles from your home or place of business.

I have a creek on my property. Matter of fact I bought that otherwise worthless parcel specifically and only because it had a creek on it. Therefore mother nature does a fine job of handling the rainwater here so where it my discount? Why should my rate be higher when I spent money to own natural drainage on my ground? Why am I paying at all?