Indiana HB1029 - LTCH identifier on driver's license

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • dusty88

    Master
    Local Business Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Aug 11, 2014
    3,179
    83
    United States
    Creating barriers to entry in order to exercise a civil right is always dangerous. In the past such barriers are always one way ratchets to more and more requirements, 8 hours becomes 40 hours, becomes a "donation" to the Sheriff becomes ________________.

    Think of it this way, in your business, what would happen if you raised your price to a million-billion dollars for one widget that you had for sale? Would you sell any widgets?

    It's a barrier and may do as much harm as good. Typically, government regulations don't evolve as fast as technology and innovation. So the government reg will say something like "spend 2 hrs learning XYZ" even after XYZ is no longer the safest equipment or method.

    From what I hear, the instructors in Illinois are frustrated with the "required" training because they don't think it encompasses the most important aspects of beginner handgun training.

    It also entices cronyism. If I run a large shooting range in Indiana and I have a buddy in the legislature, he might add a requirement that just happens to be more suited to my range.

    As for the ID, an additional problem is giving the BMV one more hoop to jump through when they verify whether or not you are a permit holder and therefore 1 more reason to screw up whatever it is you are trying to do there. The BMV has gotten a lot better in the last few years, partially because they streamlined their process.
     

    Kirk Freeman

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Mar 9, 2008
    48,024
    113
    Lafayette, Indiana
    If you want to encourage people to get training, make it tax deductable, make ammo used during it, the miles driven to and from, and maybe a per diem for meals and lodging tax deductable.

    Above the line!:D

    Oh, and since we all like "gun safety", make gun safes tax deductible--above the line!
     

    jwh20

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    28   0   0
    Feb 22, 2013
    2,069
    48
    Hamilton County Indi
    I'm sure that their are INGO members who are residents of Mr. Gutwein's district. That's here in case you aren't sure:

    Indiana House of Representatives Republican Caucus: State Representative Doug Gutwein - District 16

    If you are unfortunate enough to have this clown representing you (or NOT representing you as seems to be the case) I urge you to contact him and request that he WITHDRAW this wrong-headed legislation which would seem to have no purpose other than to enable discrimination against and invade the privacy of otherwise lawful Indiana citizens who choose to have a LTCH.

    The standard process is that this will be referred to a committee and further consideration and there is a good possibility that it will die there. But please contact your Indiana House Representative and urge them to OPPOSE House Bill 1029 should be come before the House.
     

    rjh78

    Plinker
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jul 9, 2014
    59
    8
    Indianapolis
    So, I'll admit I am probably a little more liberal than many of us here on INGO. I am also a businessman. What I see with requiring some training is an opportunity for more revenue for the shooting community. Ranges, the NRA and private firearms instructors stand to benefit from a requirement for training. Plus it wouldn't hurt for some people to get some training. We all know people who rarely, if ever shoot and then they go out and get a LTCH.

    When I lived in VA. and they signed the bill to allow CW permits, they required training. I used to teach the NRA basic class so that people could get their permit. It provided sound instruction plus introduced more people to the concept of joining a club and getting involved in the shooting sports.

    What am I missing as the downside to this? Or is it just another government intrusion into our lives?

    I moved from Oklahoma last year. I don't think you can find a more gun loving, redder state :) Even there, you had to take a mandatory NRA 8hr safety course and prove you can shoot. The course also covered some of the legal aspects of the OK Self Defense Act. It's still a shall issue state, and the course is pretty much a formality although I thought it was actually pretty informative and useful.

    I figure we pick our battles. Is an 8hr NRA basics course that much of an ask? if it gives some peace of mind to those who dont like us carrying guns, and keeps them off our backs (wishful thinking huh?)
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

    Super Moderator
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Mar 22, 2011
    50,899
    113
    Mitchell
    I moved from Oklahoma last year. I don't think you can find a more gun loving, redder state :) Even there, you had to take a mandatory NRA 8hr safety course and prove you can shoot. The course also covered some of the legal aspects of the OK Self Defense Act. It's still a shall issue state, and the course is pretty much a formality although I thought it was actually pretty informative and useful.

    I figure we pick our battles. Is an 8hr NRA basics course that much of an ask? if it gives some peace of mind to those who dont like us carrying guns, and keeps them off our backs (wishful thinking huh?)

    Ask for what? We don't have to do it now. What are they proposing to "give" to gun carriers that would be worth this added incumberance to exercising our rights?




    By the way a native born Oklahoman here. :)
     

    pudly

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    35   0   0
    Nov 12, 2008
    13,329
    83
    Undisclosed
    So, Indiana passed a law a couple of years ago that people couldn't get a copy of the LTCH database and publish names, but now we would be required to show that we have firearm licenses to anyone that requests a drivers license for identity verification? Wow...
     

    Denny347

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    21   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
    13,434
    149
    Napganistan
    Do you really want the .gov, or in this case the .in, to pass ever more laws that force people to pay taxes to create jobs?

    I like the ideas Kirk brings up in threads like this. If you want to encourage people to get training, make it tax deductable, make ammo used during it, the miles driven to and from, and maybe a per diem for meals and lodging tax deductable.
    That is actually a fantastic idea...bravo sir.
     

    daddyusmaximus

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 98.9%
    88   1   0
    Aug 21, 2013
    8,624
    113
    Remington
    Just e-mailed my State representative about this. I think it's the equivalent of standing on a table and shouting "I've got a gun!" every time you are required to present your driver's license.

    I also just noticed a bill from a Senate Democrat that, if passed, would require 8 hours of handgun training to receive a LTCH. It would only apply to applications for new licenses after 12/31/2015.

    My thoughts as well. People other than LEOs ask for ID, not their business if I'm carrying or not.
     

    tatic05

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    20   0   0
    Dec 3, 2011
    1,205
    38
    Ft. Wayne
    I moved from Oklahoma last year. I don't think you can find a more gun loving, redder state :) Even there, you had to take a mandatory NRA 8hr safety course and prove you can shoot. The course also covered some of the legal aspects of the OK Self Defense Act. It's still a shall issue state, and the course is pretty much a formality although I thought it was actually pretty informative and useful.

    I figure we pick our battles. Is an 8hr NRA basics course that much of an ask? if it gives some peace of mind to those who dont like us carrying guns, and keeps them off our backs (wishful thinking huh?)


    Why give them an inch, when once its given they will take a mile? Look at the history and there are plenty of examples that start with such a small tiny little requirement that turn into something a whole lot more.

    In OK if you do not complete the 8 hour course are you still going to get your LTCH? If you wont I dont see how its a shall issue stat, unless there is a shall issue only with an 8 hour course state that I have not heard of yet, other wise I would consider it a May Issue state.
     

    Hoosier8

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    27   0   1
    Jul 3, 2008
    5,011
    113
    Indianapolis
    The only complaint I have heard about the LTCH is that there is no picture and it can easily be duplicated for criminals on the street. Heard that from a cop.
     

    bwframe

    Loneranger
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    93   0   0
    Feb 11, 2008
    38,179
    113
    Btown Rural
    LTCH should not be tied to the driver's license database at all. Including through police dispatch, how do we get that undone?
     

    rjh78

    Plinker
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jul 9, 2014
    59
    8
    Indianapolis
    Why give them an inch, when once its given they will take a mile? Look at the history and there are plenty of examples that start with such a small tiny little requirement that turn into something a whole lot more.

    In OK if you do not complete the 8 hour course are you still going to get your LTCH? If you wont I dont see how its a shall issue stat, unless there is a shall issue only with an 8 hour course state that I have not heard of yet, other wise I would consider it a May Issue state.

    I hear you, I'm trying to compromise. I think most people on both sides have forgotten the meaning of that word!

    Compromise: verb - settle a dispute by mutual concession. Example: "in the end we compromised and deferred the issue", to meet each other halfway, come to an understanding, make a deal,make concessions, find a happy medium, strike a balance; give and take :) :)


    Back on subject with respect to OK, yes, the 8 hr course is part of the application process. It's also part of the FL process (I have that one too). Both are shall issue states. The shall issue requires that an issuing authority provide the permit without bias or discretion. It does not remove the requirement for the applicant to meet defined, objective criteria such as fingerprinting, background checks, and/or proficiency training prior to the issue of the permit. In other words, if you complete your part of the process, the state SHALL issue your permit.
     

    TheSpark

    Expert
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 26, 2013
    785
    18
    If this ever happened then gone are the days of being able to keep the fact that you have a LTCH private. BMV will know, work will know if they require a copy of your ID at hiring. Heck, even the kid at walmart will know when he asks for your ID to pay with a credit card or for alcohol.
     

    7urtle

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Aug 8, 2011
    405
    18
    hammond
    If this ever happened then gone are the days of being able to keep the fact that you have a LTCH private. BMV will know, work will know if they require a copy of your ID at hiring. Heck, even the kid at walmart will know when he asks for your ID to pay with a credit card or for alcohol.
    or buy a movie
     
    Top Bottom