Indiana HB1029 - LTCH identifier on driver's license

[SteveM4A1]

I hear you, I'm trying to compromise. I think most people on both sides have forgotten the meaning of that word!

Compromise: verb - settle a dispute by mutual concession. Example: "in the end we compromised and deferred the issue", to meet each other halfway, come to an understanding, make a deal,make concessions, find a happy medium, strike a balance; give and take


Back on subject with respect to OK, yes, the 8 hr course is part of the application process. It's also part of the FL process (I have that one too). Both are shall issue states. The shall issue requires that an issuing authority provide the permit without bias or discretion. It does not remove the requirement for the applicant to meet defined, objective criteria such as fingerprinting, background checks, and/or proficiency training prior to the issue of the permit. In other words, if you complete your part of the process, the state SHALL issue your permit.

Compromise? Why would I compromise to unconstitutional laws? Why would I compromise with someone who doesn't even understand the meaning behind the 2nd Amendment? No thanks.

 

[Paul30]

I moved from Oklahoma last year. I don't think you can find a more gun loving, redder state Even there, you had to take a mandatory NRA 8hr safety course and prove you can shoot. The course also covered some of the legal aspects of the OK Self Defense Act. It's still a shall issue state, and the course is pretty much a formality although I thought it was actually pretty informative and useful.

I figure we pick our battles. Is an 8hr NRA basics course that much of an ask? if it gives some peace of mind to those who don't like us carrying guns, and keeps them off our backs (wishful thinking huh?)

I was amazed to see Oklahoma is a "shall inform" state a while back. I lived in OK and liked it as well. About as conservative as you can get although we had to fight to get CCW passed. Originally Oklahoma had a 6 hour class, and Texas did not honor Oklahoma license because OK did not have as much training as TX, TX had another 2 hours of sitting drinking coffee. I took the OK class, I learned nothing about shooting, and the only thing I learned about carrying is that you had better be legal when you put a bullet in someone. Printing that you carry a gun on your DL is a big breach of privacy. How about if you are pulled over in another state while traveling, do you have any firearms in the vehicle? Do you mind if I search it to make sure? I distinctly smell marijuana coming from this vehicle and that gives me the right to search it. It has happened to a friend of mine minus the gun pretext. Don't think it will not encourage a police officer from a state that does not honor our LTCH to do a instant unconstitutional search on the spot. When you apply for a job and the employer does a background check, they need a copy of your drivers license. If he is anti gun, you just lost a job that you may have had a shot at if this was not printed on your license. There are dozens of reasons not to put it on a drivers license, and I can't think if one good one that makes me want to do it.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

I figure we pick our battles. Is an 8hr NRA basics course that much of an ask? if it gives some peace of mind to those who dont like us carrying guns, and keeps them off our backs (wishful thinking huh?)

It doesn't give them peace of mind. They still don't want you having guns. It's just another infringement of the 2A.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

My dept ID or the fancy homeland security one they issue to all of us with the electronic chip on the front?

Boooo, active duty does not count!

 

[eric001]

I prefer my government small, weak, divided and clueless. Governmental "efficiency" makes me itch.

If I ever get around to changing my sig line, I may well have just found a new favorite quote!

Anybody else ever notice how so many of the things our government does/tries to do would benefit the .gov instead of the common citizen???

 

[AndersonIN]

Concerning required training and testing................another consideration would be the "older", "poorer" people that live in the inner city or elsewhere that need these guns to potentially SURVIVE! Now you want to make them go somewhere to pay for training, pay for a class, and pass a qualification test written/accuracy????

Sorry grandma you only got an XX% on the test or accuracy so you no longer have the RIGHT to protect your family. Maybe if you head out to the range a few more times and take a refresher course we can get you licensed. But until then we recommend a good club!

 

[AndersonIN]

I prefer my government small, weak, divided and clueless. Governmental "efficiency" makes me itch.

Come on Kirk you've already got two of the four........................divided and clueless!

 

[rjh78]

Concerning required training and testing................another consideration would be the "older", "poorer" people that live in the inner city or elsewhere that need these guns to potentially SURVIVE! Now you want to make them go somewhere to pay for training, pay for a class, and pass a qualification test written/accuracy????

Sorry grandma you only got an XX% on the test or accuracy so you no longer have the RIGHT to protect your family. Maybe if you head out to the range a few more times and take a refresher course we can get you licensed. But until then we recommend a good club!

OK, but if grandma doesn't understand the self defense laws of her state, and cant hit the broad side of barn enough to pass a CCW test, then I'd be happy that she's not packing heat in public until her aim's better and she knows when she can and cant exercise the option of lethal force. There's nothing to stop her from having a gun at home in the meantime.

 

[Doug B]

Concerning required training and testing................another consideration would be the "older", "poorer" people that live in the inner city or elsewhere that need these guns to potentially SURVIVE! Now you want to make them go somewhere to pay for training, pay for a class, and pass a qualification test written/accuracy????

Sorry grandma you only got an XX% on the test or accuracy so you no longer have the RIGHT to protect your family. Maybe if you head out to the range a few more times and take a refresher course we can get you licensed. But until then we recommend a good club!

Agreed. Hmmm... Maybe we should have folks pass a simple test before being allowed to vote. Then we can put a voting symbol on their drivers license. Hmmm....

Purple intended...maybe.

 

[Rocketscientist]

My thoughts as well. People other than LEOs ask for ID, not their business if I'm carrying or not.

Agreed. It's nobody's business. I agree with just about everything everyone has said here. I can just see this spinning out of control in places of business that are GFZ's asking for ID then kicking you out at the register after you just spent 2 or 3 hours shopping for groceries or what-not. Or what if my wallet gets stolen or lost? Now anyone who has it knows my address AND that I have guns. I can think of way more bad than good on this one.

 

[MCgrease08]

I hear you, I'm trying to compromise. I think most people on both sides have forgotten the meaning of that word!

Compromise: verb - settle a dispute by mutual concession. Example: "in the end we compromised and deferred the issue", to meet each other halfway, come to an understanding, make a deal,make concessions, find a happy medium, strike a balance; give and take


Back on subject with respect to OK, yes, the 8 hr course is part of the application process. It's also part of the FL process (I have that one too). Both are shall issue states. The shall issue requires that an issuing authority provide the permit without bias or discretion. It does not remove the requirement for the applicant to meet defined, objective criteria such as fingerprinting, background checks, and/or proficiency training prior to the issue of the permit. In other words, if you complete your part of the process, the state SHALL issue your permit.

First, why the need to compromise in this case? There's no problem that needs to be resolved, no ongoing debate that's been stalemated. It's not compromise, it would simply be concession with no conceivable benefit.

Secondly, by having a training requirement OK does not issue licenses without bias. They are placing a bias against those who don't meet their specific training requirement.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Someone link that comic of anti-gunners taking away gunner's pie.

 

[Classic]

Compromise.....Isn't that where gun owners give up something they want and liberals get something they want? Oh yeah, and this is all they want, just a compromise on the issue, this time (until the next time anyway).

 

[MCgrease08]

OK, but if grandma doesn't understand the self defense laws of her state, and cant hit the broad side of barn enough to pass a CCW test, then I'd be happy that she's not packing heat in public until her aim's better and she knows when she can and cant exercise the option of lethal force. There's nothing to stop her from having a gun at home in the meantime.

Wow. Do you really think Granny's going to be taking long range shots at random people who may or may not be a true threat?

Most elderly folks I know are more concerned with a close range attack. Because they are generally smaller, weaker, slower a criminal has no qualms about getting up close and personal with an elderly victim. In those types of cases I think the threat of great bodily harm or death is pretty clear. Do they really need an 8 hour class to make that type of determination.

 

[EyeCarry]

This should NOT pass for all the good reasons on previous posting. One I did not see as I scrolled through all of them is that Indiana is not a "duty to inform" state. Isn't having it on your DL a way around this? Forcing us to inform?

 

[Kutnupe14]

I personally think it's a good idea.

Edit: as far as the latch identifier on a DL. What is the basis of opposition to this?

 

[pudly]

I personally think it's a good idea.

Because?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Because?

It reduces the need to carry another piece of identification. I guess, I can see the argument of wanting to keep it out of view of the public (because an ID is required for a lot of things). I looking at it from a LE perspective, as if you are identifying yourself to us, we would know one way or the other.

 

[Roadie]

re: Training Requirement

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed, once you have paid the required fees and passed the required training.

 

[Roadie]

It reduces the need to carry another piece of identification. I guess, I can see the argument of wanting to keep it out of view of the public (because an ID is required for a lot of things). I looking at it from a LE perspective, as if you are identifying yourself to us, we would know one way or the other.

I can understand why this would be appealing, from a Law Enforcement perspective.. however, as a private citizen I have to agree with the previous post regarding not wanting my Employer, my Doctor, the guy at the Liquor store, etc etc to know I have an LTCH.

You don't think some employers wouldn't hold that against a potential new hire?