Is batoning over rated?

[TiminMishawaka]

This has been on my mind for a while. It seems every youtube knife reviewer has to show how well a knife can be batoned through a 4 inch stick to make two 2 inch sticks. Maybe it's the environment I've become used to or maybe I'm just lucky but I've never been in a situation where I've found 4 inch sticks and had a shortage of smaller sticks in an hour of 2 inch stick need. I'm trying to think of an actual survival situation where someone would actually need to baton a knife through wood and am not really coming up with anything..... In fact, I have to wonder if it's a practice that in a real survival situation is an unnecessary expenditure of calories when kindling could be just be foraged a lot easier. Your thoughts?

 

[sadclownwp]

sometimes you might want to make something. Or all wood might be soaking wet, so the dry wood might be in the middle and you may have to get to it and make small sticks from the dry wood on the inside to start a fire.

 

[TiminMishawaka]

sometimes you might want to make something. Or all wood might be soaking wet, so the dry wood might be in the middle and you may have to get to it and make small sticks from the dry wood on the inside to start a fire.

Dry timber off the ground doesn't take more than a few shaves to get to dry wood. As far as making things, what would you need to make that you would really need to start by batoning sticks in half?

 

[flatlander]

Dry timber off the ground doesn't take more than a few shaves to get to dry wood. As far as making things, what would you need to make that you would really need to start by batoning sticks in half?

A 2" board/ flat piece of wood made from a 4" piece of round wood where you now have a flat surface to work on?

Bob

 

[Chase515]

I baton alot actually. Normaly I dont have the best supply of kindling on hand when starting the fireplace. I have a bunch of split walnut right now and i'll grab a peace and start shaving tender til i have a nice pile. Then as the shavings get bigger I make a seperate pile. I will start batoning to make 1/4 to half inch slabs, the slabs i lay on the fireplace grate and place the kindling on, start the fire with a firesteel then i gradually lay more of the slabs on. How will this work in the real world? Actually quite well, its a method that i trust throughly outdoors. In just a few short minutes I can produce kindling outdoors from a small or medium or large stick/log. Yes you can gather kindling during the day but what happens when it rains on you headed back home?

 

[Sanguine Samurai]

There are two major reasons to baton wood.
The first reason is to get to the inner drier layers of wood when conditions are wet.
The second reason is to produce sharp edges on the wood's surface because the sharp edges catch fire and burn more effeciently than round wood in it's natural state without the aid of an accelerant. It's the same reason people split wood with an ax or splitting maul, but typically knives weigh less than axes and mauls. So they are easier to carry. It all comes down to fire crafting. Can you get away without batoning? Probably. Does it make starting and sustaining a fire easier? definitely.

Batoning shouldn't be that calorie consuming of an activity. Hence all the testing. Not all knife models baton the same. Some are easier than others. Batoning also acts as a quantitative durability test. Why take someone's word that a knife is strong when someone else is willing to bash the crap out of it to prove it's strength?

I will admit I have seen people on youtube trying to baton with knives that were inadiquate (i.e. too short. weak steel, odd grind, etc.) for the job, and is therefore an irrelevant exersize. The knife should be made of a spring steel. With a mostly to fully flat ground blade. Preferably the blade should be five or more inches long to produce a more favorable mechanical advantage.

It may seem like nonsence, but don't take my word for it. Try it. It works!

 

[shibumiseeker]

I have to concur with Tim. This has been puzzling me lately as well.

I've been doing wilderness survival for over a quarter century now and it hasn't been until the last couple years I'd ever heard of "batoning" and honestly I can't imagine treating my knife like that. I can also say out of a lifetime of starting fires in all sorts of nasty conditions, including ones where my survival depended on it, I've never NEEDED to split larger pieces. I can always find dry enough wood, and while I have shaved some pieces to get to dry enough wood to make kindling, but I've never needed to use my knife as a splitting wedge and I'm having real trouble imagining the need.

Once I get enough tinder and kindling gathered and going, wood'll burn no matter how wet it is, and the smaller diameter pieces split just fine pushing my blade through them without beating it.

 

[jeremy]

If you need to split Wood you should have brought an Axe or Tomahawk...

 

[grunt soldier]

If you need to split Wood you should have brought an Axe or Tomahawk...

i semi agree with this but in all honesty batoning the blade is definitely safer than swinging a axe around. even using the best axe techniques out there (which the vast majority of people don't) it's still not as safe as smacking your knife through the log.

batoning isn't a requirement but it definitely lets you cut down on your time looking for dry kindling. i usually look for dead branches hanging in the tree as they aren't likely to be soaking even after a rain. make a good couple fuzz sticks out of it and collect some more and you have a good base to start drying your other wood. i do baton to when want to make a flat base for the bow drill and other stuff of that nature.

it's also good to know what your knife can stand up to especially if your going to be counting on it and survival situation. plus lets be honest its a good stress reliever and just plain fun to sit around the camp fire and beat your knife through some wood

 

[TiminMishawaka]

Some are easier than others. Batoning also acts as a quantitative durability test. Why take someone's word that a knife is strong when someone else is willing to bash the crap out of it to prove it's strength?

I can tell you why. To design a knife so that it can endure batoning....metalurgically and design wise, something has to be given up. There's a reason the rockwell hardness on an axe is far less than a knife and there's a reason the cross section of kitchen knives, carpet cutting knives, utility knives, filet knives, even machetes and saw blades and everything meant to cut and not split is much thinner than a knife that does the one task of batoning well.

I'm just questioning if a knife's ability to baton well is something we really need....or something a few people came up with the idea of to sell you a knife, possibly even something to sell you a knife that makes a knife less functional as a knife.....

 

[drbarnes]

I can tell you why. To design a knife so that it can endure batoning....metalurgically and design wise, something has to be given up. There's a reason the rockwell hardness on an axe is far less than a knife and there's a reason the cross section of kitchen knives, carpet cutting knives, utility knives, filet knives, even machetes and saw blades and everything meant to cut and not split is much thinner than a knife that does the one task of batoning well.

I'm just questioning if a knife's ability to baton well is something we really need....or something a few people came up with the idea of to sell you a knife, possibly even something to sell you a knife that makes a knife less functional as a knife.....

I would think that axes have a lower hardness so they are more malleable if you hit something swinging it around fast the edge will roll instead of chip? also you can realign the edge.

Would you take a kitchen/carpet/utility/filet knife into the woods to use in a survival scenerio? If its all you got then its all you got but I would prefer a larger knife.

You can get a knife that will chop, slice, baton, pry, dig all in 1 package... what are you giving up?

 

[shibumiseeker]

You can get a knife that will chop, slice, baton, pry, dig all in 1 package... what are you giving up?

As far as I'm concerned, I'm still trying to sort out the need to baton my knife. Granted I don't have a tv program showing my survival skillz, but I've never felt the need in many years of spending a lot of time out in the woods.

 

[drbarnes]

As far as I'm concerned, I'm still trying to sort out the need to baton my knife. Granted I don't have a tv program showing my survival skillz, but I've never felt the need in many years of spending a lot of time out in the woods.

I guess you should get your own show. to each their own

I find its easier to make kindling that catches fire easier, as has already been pointed out

 

[shibumiseeker]

I guess you should get your own show. to each their own

Maybe. I'm trying to figure out where this came from since it seems to me that it developed relatively recently. I'm not saying that no one ever did it before, but up until a couple of years ago I'd never heard of it, and I've taught and practiced wilderness survival since the mid 80s.

 

[Mosinguy]

Batoning is a fancy way of cutting wood. Knives are meant to cut things, not be beat with a piece of wood to cut into another piece of wood. Get a hatchet if you really gotta split wood.

 

[shibumiseeker]

I find its easier to make kindling that catches fire easier, as has already been pointed out

And as I responded, I'm scratching my head finding the real NEED. Yeah, smaller diameter wood catches more quickly, and thin edges help that process, but when I lay a fire, by the time I've got firewood bigger diameter than a finger, I'm beyond the "kindling" stage. My 3" folding Buck knife splits finger sized wood for kindling just fine.

I never contested the utility, I'm questioning the need. Like, how did we start fires before this nifty technique came into play?

 

[drbarnes]

could it be possible that there has been a new idea to make making fire/ dry kindling easier?

I mean, the fiero was a sportscar in the 80s

I will admit that I'm no survival expert, and havent taught anyone else how to survive, so youre the goto guy on this one.

 

[shibumiseeker]

could it be possible that there has been a new idea to make making fire/ dry kindling easier?

I mean, the fiero was a sportscar in the 80s

I will admit that I'm no survival expert, and havent taught anyone else how to survive, so youre the goto guy on this one.

I'm A go to guy for this, I hardly claim to be THE go to guy. What I am trying to determine is the need, and possibly the origins.

Your sarcasm aside, I'm genuinely curious about this. Part of the reason I am curious about it is so I can answer questions a student might have. It has seemed to me to be a solution in search of a problem. Yeah, it's neat, and yeah it's a great way to demonstrate the durability of a knife, but that aside, is it NEEDED? I'm all for learning to do things a better way, but I'm still waiting to see the real advantages. If there are some you bet I'll adopt them.

Honestly, when I go out for survival exercises, I'm carrying two blades on me, a Leatherman, and a Buck folding knife. I can readily do everything I use a knife for with either of those. Of course, I've also made and used knives out of chert (flint), broken bottles, and odd bits of metal...

Part of what I am trying to determine is this just a neat new fad, or is it really a polar shift in the way of thinking about things.

I carry a larger fixed blade when I am hiking because I *like* it, and for potential self defense, but I don't think of it as a survival requirement.

 

[grunt soldier]

Batoning is a fancy way of cutting wood. Knives are meant to cut things, not be beat with a piece of wood to cut into another piece of wood. Get a hatchet if you really gotta split wood.

like i stated earlier for all you hatchet/axe guys, batoning is much safer especially considering the vast majority of folks in todays age have never used axe's/hatchets. use to it was common practice but today unless you grew up splitting wood, your much more likely to have the axe skip off or bust through and hit your leg and then you will be in a real survival situation. me i love camp axes but i grew up splitting wood with my dad.

i also love me a great knife that can handle any and all tasks if i'm running through the woods and don't feel like carrying a 2 lb hatchet along with my knife.

me personally i always recommend that folks carry and use what they know best and are most comfortable with. a lot of folks aren't comfortable with a axe but are with a knife and batoning is a nice/safe way to get your wood prepped for a fire.

 

[grunt soldier]

ps this is a common topic on most the bushcraft forums lol. you will always have some who are all the way for it, some all the way against it, and some like me who see both sides of the sword. either way it's always a option for splitting wood in a pinch

Batonning v. Axing