Kicked out of Old Navy!

[melensdad]

Do NOT simply stop going to OLD NAVY and THE GAP. While that is a good step it is not enough.

Make sure you send them an email explaining why you are no longer going to shop there!

custserv@oldnavy.com

custserve@thegap.com

 

[superjoe76]

Just informed the wife we won't be shopping at Old Navy and the Gap! I told her why and she said, "Thats fine, I don't like those stores anyway."

 

[goinggreyfast]

Do NOT simply stop going to OLD NAVY and THE GAP. While that is a good step it is not enough.

Make sure you send them an email explaining why you are no longer going to shop there!

custserv@oldnavy.com

custserve@thegap.com

Email sent

 

[Richwon4]

First I would have concealed my firearm as I only carry a concealed permit. Second I would have apologized the manager for not know the stores policy, then promptly exited. We have to protect the few rights we have left, by being exceptions to the generalizations antis have in there own misled minds.

 

[mrjarrell]

First I would have concealed my firearm as I only carry a concealed permit. Second I would have apologized the manager for not know the stores policy, then promptly exited. We have to protect the few rights we have left, by being exceptions to the generalizations antis have in there own misled minds.

If you're in Indiana you do NOT have a concealed "permit". You have a license to carry and you can carry however you please, concealed or open. A business CAN ask you to leave if they have a policy of no firearms (or just don't like you) and you have to leave, but there is no concealed carry permit in Indiana. The OP was lawfully carrying, if being a bit sloppy in his concealment.

 

[Kutnupe14]

If you're in Indiana you do NOT have a concealed "permit". You have a license to carry and you can carry however you please, concealed or open. A business CAN ask you to leave if they have a policy of no firearms (or just don't like you) and you have to leave, but there is no concealed carry permit in Indiana. The OP was lawfully carrying, if being a bit sloppy in his concealment.

But if he's not, he's bound to carry in whatever way his permit allows. He doesn't clarify one way or the other.

-Devil's Advocate

 

[printcraft]

If you're in Indiana you do NOT have a concealed "permit". You have a license to carry and you can carry however you please, concealed or open. A business CAN ask you to leave if they have a policy of no firearms (or just don't like you) and you have to leave, but there is no concealed carry permit in Indiana. The OP was lawfully carrying, if being a bit sloppy in his concealment.

But if he's not, he's bound to carry in whatever way his permit allows. He doesn't clarify one way or the other.
-Devil's Advocate

From the horses mouth:

I've been an inactive member of this site for about a year now. So long so that I don't remember why I used the quote I used. Officially it is good to be a part of this group. I'm live in Fort Wayne and am not an expert marksman or experienced with firearms. I do however read a lot of reviews and other articles relating. I'm more of an outdoors enthusiast adding firearms to my list of interests. Faith Family and others.

Indiana LTCH - unlimited on how or what you carry.

 

[maxmayhem]

conceal vs open

It is for insurance reasons these companies have these policies and they do not have to be enforced but just have to be in place. I could ask you not to come to my home with a gun just as i could ask you not to come in my business with a gun...i can tell you to leave my home or my business for any reason...the question in this case is if the employee acted in accordance with Old Navy policy or of his own volition...otherwise, this is a non story as the manager was just doing his job and a good reason for us to carry concealed (imo) ...if the OP had carried concealed(though I am not faulting him) he would never have been asked to leave....if you conceal carry you are not breaking the law and companies do not know you are breaking their policy...there is no civil or criminal penalty for carrying a gun on to public property like this, however, they are within their rights to ask you to leave....if you open carry you are just inviting some nanny manager trying to impress a 18 cashier who he is dating to show how big his rocks are...this is why I conceal carry

First I would have concealed my firearm as I only carry a concealed permit. Second I would have apologized the manager for not know the stores policy, then promptly exited. We have to protect the few rights we have left, by being exceptions to the generalizations antis have in there own misled minds.

 

[trillobite]

"I have a LTCH, and I am not a criminal. I vote with my wallet. "
Old Navy - Wall | Facebook
Easiest way to get heard, no?
Wonder how long before that post is deleted.

 

[shooter651]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't matter if a store has a no firearms policy or not.. You can just ignore the sign and continue on with your business. However, it is private property and if asked to leave your must or risk a possible trespass charge.

 

[ATM]

But if he's not, he's bound to carry in whatever way his permit allows. He doesn't clarify one way or the other.

-Devil's Advocate

Not necessarily.

Most permits do not merely "allow" a certain manner of carry, they serve to except the holder from a certain law which would otherwise prohibit that manner of carry.

That doesn't preclude a person from carrying in some other manner which is not prohibited.

-God's Advocate

 

[thebishopp]

It is for insurance reasons these companies have these policies and they do not have to be enforced but just have to be in place. I could ask you not to come to my home with a gun just as i could ask you not to come in my business with a gun...i can tell you to leave my home or my business for any reason...the question in this case is if the employee acted in accordance with Old Navy policy or of his own volition...otherwise, this is a non story as the manager was just doing his job and a good reason for us to carry concealed (imo) ...if the OP had carried concealed(though I am not faulting him) he would never have been asked to leave....if you conceal carry you are not breaking the law and companies do not know you are breaking their policy...there is no civil or criminal penalty for carrying a gun on to public property like this, however, they are within their rights to ask you to leave....if you open carry you are just inviting some nanny manager trying to impress a 18 cashier who he is dating to show how big his rocks are...this is why I conceal carry

You need to read about BEST BUYS response. If it is for insurance reasons then apparently Best Buy is not as concerned as other retailers.

CPZ Signs at Best Buy Come Down

 

[melensdad]

"I have a LTCH, and I am not a criminal. I vote with my wallet. "
Old Navy - Wall | Facebook
Easiest way to get heard, no?
Wonder how long before that post is deleted.

It may be easy but will it send the message to the people who are responsive or will it just send the message to the Facebook wall where there Facebook administrator simply deletes it and nothing is done.

If you are going to take the effort to do something you might as well try to do it as effectively as possible.

 

[paddling_man]

A few different issues in this thread.
Type of carry mandated by permit
I carried on a Utah Non-Resident CONCEALED Carry Permit for years before moving to Indiana. Once a resident of Indiana, while they honor a UT-NonRes when you're NOT a IN res, you must get an Indiana permit after becoming a resident (if you want to carry.) Indiana's permit is unlimited in terms of carry-type.

FYI - UT is changing their permit to *require* that you get a permit from the State you are a resident, if available, or something to that effect. I saw something about this when I renewed my UT Non-Res this month but, since it didn't apply to my situation, I largely ignored it.

Business Rules
Written rules are something to fall back on, in a retail environment, when the situation warrants it. It gives the employee something to point-and-blame when they need to justify their actions. Nearly every rule has its foundation in something stupid someone has done. Now they're written in a rule form due to insurance or past experience. Largely these rules are pointed to when the employee needs to use them if they feel you are causing a problem or disturbance.

Face it, lots of folks are freaked out by guns. This is a result of negative experiences, stereotypes or purely lack of experience. Is there a school of thought that the best way to get the sheep past gun-freak-out is to desensitize them through repeated non-negative exposure? Sure.

The store is all about image. If they had a rule to point to that would keep out the loud, brash, poorly dressed - well, they would probably do it. If they could ask you to leave because of excessive body odor, they probably would. If they could ask the woman in a burka (spelling?) to leave during the Christmas sales, they probably would. They CAN ask the guy OC'ing, who might be freaking out the cute little liberal transplants from Chicago shopping in Old Navy, to leave... and they did. I don't know the OP nor do I even have a mental image but if you have a long beard and were wearing camos & Carhartt (yeah, I'm wearing Carhartt pants as I type this), then this just gave the manager an excuse to remove someone from their environment who alters the image of his cute little store demographic.

If you want the rules changed, harangue the Corporate Office until they post a memo to employees saying you CAN'T ask someone to leave for carrying a firearm.

Trespass
The head-man-in-charge can make rules as he goes, as it relates to the customer. Sure, those rules might be contrary to corporate policy and you can call them on it via the headquarters. Primary point? If the employee asks you to leave, LEAVE. Failure to do so moves you from a difference of opinion to criminal trespass.

I occasionally OC. Usually outside... woods, etc.. Every once-in-a-blue-moon, I might be out in a retail environment with an OC'ed gun. Usually because I just left the woods...

Honestly the same can be said for a fixed blade. (I LOVE Indiana knife laws.)

I just had a funny thought. How many times have I heard hetero men say, "I don't care if other dudes are gay. Just don't shove it in my face. I don't want to see 'em kissing in public. Yech." I wonder how many folks that are not gun-nuts, like us, feel the same way about OC? Funny but fitting analogy.

OC when you want, where you want, as you see appropriate. Do the same with CC. Just don't be surprised when folks look at you funny when you behave outside the norm. This coming from a bearded dude with a 8" knife held in my teeth.

 

[Greeper]

Do NOT simply stop going to OLD NAVY and THE GAP. While that is a good step it is not enough.

Make sure you send them an email explaining why you are no longer going to shop there!

custserv@oldnavy.com

custserve@thegap.com

Sent my email...I don't normally shop at Gap or Old Navy, but we have strength in numbers to change the policies that will allow our peers' wifes and daughters to shop there...maybe with us tagging along. Our emails might change some minds, they might not, but those digital 1s and 0s are free and might bring some good...my .

 

[hot rod al]

I suppose it really doesn't matter how I carried open or "sloppily" concealed because my gun permit specifically states in bold, capitalized letters "LICENSE TO CARRY HANDGUN STATE OF INDIANA." I was more pissed that there isn't anything posted about this no firearms deal in their stores or on their lame websites, but whatever I sent them my letters. I doubt I will get any kind of answer but I will post it if I get one.

 

[wizard_of_ahs]

"I have a LTCH, and I am not a criminal. I vote with my wallet. "
Old Navy - Wall | Facebook
Easiest way to get heard, no?
Wonder how long before that post is deleted.

Looks like it's gone already

 

[goinggreyfast]

Response from Old Navy Corporate

Thank you for your email and for sharing your feedback regarding your recent experience in our 86th St. Indianapolis Old Navy store.

As a retailer, we reserve the right to set guidelines, policies, and procedures for our stores. Please know that, in any of our brands we do not allow customers or employees to possess firearms on our property, with the exception of authorized law enforcement or security personnel. We apologize for the frustration that this may cause you. It is not our intention to have a guideline that may upset or frustrate a customer.

Please be assured that we have documented your feedback and forwarded your concerns to the appropriate management staff responsible for the store you were shopping in. The concerns you have outlined will be addressed and every effort made to improve the shopping experience for everyone.

We truly value your business and hope you will give Old Navy another opportunity to fulfill your shopping needs.

If you have further questions or concerns, please call us at 1-800-OLD-NAVY and follow the prompts to share your store experience. We are available Monday through Friday from 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. and Saturday 11:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time.

Sincerely,

Thomas
Old Navy Customer Relations

 

[TaunTaun]

Hmmm...how about if they HAVE that policy, then they need to post it AT the entrances of their stores and list their policies on their corporate website.

As I've seen neither of them (but it HAS been several years since I went into one of their stores), if they don't post it publicly, how will we know if we should not shop there?

 

[Mgderf]

Got kicked out of Old Navy? Try the new Marines, they'll let you carry!