legal and ethical question

[atvdave]

She was only provided the 3 letter acronym of the business. Example ABC company. Which is what this company operates under. Unfortunately so do like 50 others in IN & IL. Now that we have the check we know, I wont post it as I feel the business was never ware of this situation at all or until just recently; just my gut feeling. Looks like a small at home business.

I think you are right.. posting the name will accomplish nothing. I think most of the issue was with mom#2.

 

[chezuki]

I feel the business was never ware of this situation at all or until just recently

That's what I was getting at. It sounds like your wife gave the $35 to the third party "mom" rather than the business. If that's the case, it's likely the business never even knew the issue.

 

[MAC100]

There's the problem!

Yes the stop payment fee was paid by at fault party of loosing the checks (my wife) as was previously said.

I agree and my wife agrees it was the problem. Again these are volunteer mom's not professional business owners. A mistake was made she owned up to it and was asking for the help and people to show some compassion, kidness, and to do the moral thing. She did not want her mistake to cost anybody any money that is why she paid the stop check fee.

but come on a lost check and writing a new one is not the end of the world. I am so glad too see were the ethics of alot of people here stand. "F*&# you cookie mom your mistake I wont take the 10 minutes out my day to write you a new check.... (as their face is covered in chocolate from thin mints) F*#$ those girl scouts this will teach them some responsibility"

 

[chezuki]

I agree and my wife agrees it was the problem.

It was a grammar joke... nevermind.

As I said, it certainly appears like any dishonesty falls solely on the "mom".

 

[public servant]

EDIT:

LEt's suppose I have a rifle to sell in the classifieds. I come to terms with a buyer and we agree to meet and exchange funds for rifle. I give him the rifle, he gives me the check. Let's make it a cashier's check for all those who are going to comment on accepting personal checks. I stuff the check into my purse because I'm in a hurry. When I get home, I can't find it. Not in my purse, not in my truck. Not with the other paperwork associated with the sale. Do you really think I have the moral authority to go back to the buyer (because in this example we all share our real phone numbers with each other in the classifieds) and demand that he write me another check because I lost the first one?

If you were the buyer...and the seller called you and said they lost your check, would you write them another check, less possibly, the stop payment fee?

 

[MAC100]

There's the problem!

Yes the stop payment fee was paid by at fault party of loosing the checks (my wife) as was previously said.

It was a grammar joke... nevermind.

As I said, it certainly appears like any dishonesty falls solely on the "mom".

Haha I got it now. too fast with the replies to notice my spelling error. good one!!

 

[hoosierdoc]

Regarding taxes: when I walk by giving $20, I guess I can deduct that. Sweet.

Girl Scout Cookies Are Tax Deductible. Sort Of. ? Consumerist

 

[PistolBob]

WOOT WOOT. Wife just came home from helping at the school and guess what she has with her!!!! The check from the business... Also guess when it is dated? January xx when the original check would have been written not a date after my wife paid for the stop check fee. So either 3 different people 2 individuals and one business all back dated their replacement checks or this Mom had them the hole time. Either way all well that ends well. Just glad it was resolved and the right thing was done to help a volunteer out that made a mistake and the girl scouts.

To the poster that said my wife would be crazy to be cookie mom again: she already said that never again LOL!! She learned her lesson on a couple things. No good dead goes unpunished and CYA.

My spidey senses tell me the mom in the middle is a lying dirtbag, and I'd find a new scout troop tomorrow.

 

[PistolBob]

It does if you provided me a receipt that said I paid.

I collect 7 rent checks a month, give or take. If I send out the receipts before I deposit the checks, and in between mailing the receipts and depositing the checks, I lost one of the checks, guess who has to eat it? That's right. Me. Oh, sure, I could ask my tenant to write another check, but he would be under no obligation to do so. And I have no legal grounds to compel him to do so. I pay my debts. But I'm only going to do it once. If you're too stupid to be responsible for the payment I made, that's your problem, not mine.

Your CC payment is a poor example. You can't prove the CC company took possession of it if you send it through the mail. THe issue is that the payment is actually delivered. Not just sent.

So if your deadbeat renter writes you a bad check, and you give her a receipt for the rent before you even deposit the check, in your illogical mind she's off the hook for rent that month. Right? Hahahah, I doubt it. If you think simply getting a check makes a debt paid then you're in for a real rude awakening one day.

If we ever do a deal, it'll be in cash.

 

[PistolBob]

Yes the stop payment fee was paid by at fault party of loosing the checks (my wife) as was previously said.

Since mom in the middle gave her the original check back, I'd be collecting my $35 back from the winch as well.

 

[hornadylnl]

Regarding taxes: when I walk by giving $20, I guess I can deduct that. Sweet.

Girl Scout Cookies Are Tax Deductible. Sort Of. ? Consumerist

I assumed they'd be tax deductible and only brought it up to head off the "screw the business, they're just going to write it off on their taxes anyway" comments.

 

[Joe G]

Amazed how many people are taking the stand and being a hard azz against a VOLUNTEER who MADE A MISTAKE and ASKED FORGIVENESS and HELP fixing that mistake. It wouldn't cost the business anything but 5 minutes of time to re-issue the check. Very surprised many here wouldn't help her out if they were in the company's shoes.


And yes, I know what it takes to be in the businesses shoes having owned/run a small business as well as be a business leader of a few billion $ companies.

 

[MAC100]

My spidey senses tell me the mom in the middle is a lying dirtbag, and I'd find a new scout troop tomorrow.

I agree mine too. My wife and another lady are the troop leaders so I think it should be more like this mom in the middle should be shown the door. However it is is a hunch right now that the mom in the middle had the checks the whole time. I know some here said they would backdate the replacement check, I wouldn't, but that does not make sense to me to do. what is the benefit? I see a negative to backdate though. What happens when a newer check number has an older date on it than the previos 5 checks. Doesn't make sense for bookkeeping. Anybody auditing your books would question it and may look fishy so why do it.

 

[MAC100]

You'd be wrong. It doesn't matter what form the payment is made in (providing it is acceptable to the creditor). Cash, check, money order, credit card information. The minute you take possession of the payment, my debt is paid. Your inability to make the transfer is not my responsibility.


EDIT:

LEt's suppose I have a rifle to sell in the classifieds. I come to terms with a buyer and we agree to meet and exchange funds for rifle. I give him the rifle, he gives me the check. Let's make it a cashier's check for all those who are going to comment on accepting personal checks. I stuff the check into my purse because I'm in a hurry. When I get home, I can't find it. Not in my purse, not in my truck. Not with the other paperwork associated with the sale. Do you really think I have the moral authority to go back to the buyer (because in this example we all share our real phone numbers with each other in the classifieds) and demand that he write me another check because I lost the first one?

If I was the buyer and you called me and Demanded new payment I would tell you to pound sand. If called me politely apologetically and and civilly discussed if there was anything that could be done: Well then I would call my bank and ask what the process is for a lost cashiers check . They tell me the process is XYZ and a $50 fee. I would then tell you if you pay me the $50 fee and want to meet me over at my bank sometime that is convenient for me (likely when I am going anyway) we will take care of it and get you a new check. I would likely tease you when I handed you the new one and ask if I should staple it to your shirt or something. But you are covering the bank fee meeting me at the bank so I am out nothing. You already explained how YOU would handle it. Guess we were raised different.

 

[PistolBob]

I agree mine too. My wife and another lady are the troop leaders so I think it should be more like this mom in the middle should be shown the door. However it is is a hunch right now that the mom in the middle had the checks the whole time. I know some here said they would backdate the replacement check, I wouldn't, but that does not make sense to me to do. what is the benefit? I see a negative to backdate though. What happens when a newer check number has an older date on it than the previos 5 checks. Doesn't make sense for bookkeeping. Anybody auditing your books would question it and may look fishy so why do it.

Mac....exactly. I don't know of any reputable business folks that would ever falsify the date on a business check. There's no reason to.

In the ledger you'd have the original check: $500 for GS cookies 01/15/14 Check 1000
Then later you'd have: $500 for Lost GS Cookie replacement check 03/20/14 Check 1200

Nothing has to be falsified, it's all simply explained in the ledger notes. You'd also have an entry in there to show the original check being voided out, placing the money back in the account.

I don't get it. There is no reason to be dishonest, nothing to gain by it.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Since mom in the middle gave her the original check back, I'd be collecting my $35 back from the winch as well.

Unless the original check was numbered something cool like 666 and it caught your eye at the time, unlikely you will know for sure whether this was the original, or a new backdated check.

I agree mine too. My wife and another lady are the troop leaders so I think it should be more like this mom in the middle should be shown the door. However it is is a hunch right now that the mom in the middle had the checks the whole time. I know some here said they would backdate the replacement check, I wouldn't, but that does not make sense to me to do. what is the benefit? I see a negative to backdate though. What happens when a newer check number has an older date on it than the previos 5 checks. Doesn't make sense for bookkeeping. Anybody auditing your books would question it and may look fishy so why do it.

Easy. you void the lost check with a notation that it was lost with a stop payment (which is also easily documented). Problem solved and auditors wouldnt give it a second look.

If I was the buyer and you called me and Demanded new payment I would tell you to pound sand. If called me politely apologetically and and civilly discussed if there was anything that could be done: Well then I would call my bank and ask what the process is for a lost cashiers check . They tell me the process is XYZ and a $50 fee. I would then tell you if you pay me the $50 fee and want to meet me over at my bank sometime that is convenient for me (likely when I am going anyway) we will take care of it and get you a new check. I would likely tease you when I handed you the new one and ask if I should staple it to your shirt or something. But you are covering the bank fee meeting me at the bank so I am out nothing. You already explained how YOU would handle it. Guess we were raised different.

Seems fair to me. especially the pinning it to your shirt

I'll bet a box of dosidos that if you mentioned your stop payment to the company bookkeeper they would look at you like you had two heads. My gut says the MITM had it the whole time and wanted to save face.

 

[MikeDVB]

If I were the business owner, I'd stop the payment on the first check and write you a new one. I'd also be sure to tell you in no uncertain terms you aren't welcome to come back soliciting them next year.

If you think the annoyance of having to write another check outweighs the charitable purchase's benefits and you're unwilling to accept that we're human and fallible - sure. Ultimately it would be your business and your decision - you could choose not to do it again for any reason or no reason at all.

The business owner made a sizable charitable contribution and I don't see how they get to be the villain here.

I never said they were - I run a business myself and if I made a $500 purchase such as this - I would stop the check and issue a new one so long as the party that lost the check was willing to cover the stop check fee. The point is though - I wouldn't hand over a new check until the stop check was done and if I had already taken delivery I am out to lose very little by paying the stop check fee up front and providing a receipt. If I had not yet received the goods then I would require they pay the stop check fee before I put it in place.

It does if you provided me a receipt that said I paid.

Is that the case here? If so - I missed it . That said - I've never run into that before - we receive our checks via the mail and we deposit them and, once they clear, mark the invoice cleared which sends a receipt.

I collect 7 rent checks a month, give or take. If I send out the receipts before I deposit the checks, and in between mailing the receipts and depositing the checks, I lost one of the checks, guess who has to eat it? That's right. Me. Oh, sure, I could ask my tenant to write another check, but he would be under no obligation to do so. And I have no legal grounds to compel him to do so. I pay my debts. But I'm only going to do it once. If you're too stupid to be responsible for the payment I made, that's your problem, not mine.

Sure. When we receive a check we deposit it and, once it clears, that's when we issue the receipt. We're happy to tell them we received the check if they ask but our system has no way to generate a receipt until we put it in the system as cleared.

Your CC payment is a poor example. You can't prove the CC company took possession of it if you send it through the mail. THe issue is that the payment is actually delivered. Not just sent.

If I knew you were going to debate me I would have been very specific and careful to dot my i's and cross my t's. I didn't realize we were discussing the postal service and proof of delivery in this case but simply if the check was received and lost [i.e. they admit to having received it and losing it in this case for simplicity so that we're not discussing the postal service, the mail man, and all of the issues that system can entail].

I suppose I could have typed a couple more paragraphs worth of text to be much more specific to rule out all of the other variables we weren't discussing but I'm sure you'd have just found something else to pick at .

 

[mom45]

So right now the customer has $500 worth of cookies, will not have a checking withdrawal, and was actually paid $35.

Correct?

Was the company paid $35 or was the other mom paid the $35 to give to the company? If it was given to the mom, how do you know the company ever received it?

 

[mom45]

WOOT WOOT. Wife just came home from helping at the school and guess what she has with her!!!! The check from the business... Also guess when it is dated? January xx when the original check would have been written not a date after my wife paid for the stop check fee. So either 3 different people 2 individuals and one business all back dated their replacement checks or this Mom had them the hole time. Either way all well that ends well. Just glad it was resolved and the right thing was done to help a volunteer out that made a mistake and the girl scouts.

To the poster that said my wife would be crazy to be cookie mom again: she already said that never again LOL!! She learned her lesson on a couple things. No good dead goes unpunished and CYA.

If I were your wife, I would contact the business (now that she has the check) and apologize for any confusion or trouble this mixup has caused them. I'm wondering if they will even know what she is talking about! At the very least, I would call and thank them for their generous support of the girl scouts and see if the check mixup is even mentioned. If the other mom had the check the whole time as you suspect, I wonder if the company was ever contacted or is in any way aware of what happened.

 

[HamYankee]

I've never considered not writing the current date on a check, no matter what the situation. Perhaps make a note on the check that it is a replacement check.
As far as the business, I think if the original check wasn't cashed, they didn't pay. Period. So, no sale, unless they want to write a new check.
Also, I would escalate it to higher up in the Girl Scout organization. Your wife should not be dealing with this alone. She needs to communicate the problem up the ladder.
Good luck.