Lifetime LTCH Holder Arrested After Misplacing Gun in School

[92ThoStro]

I am not familiar with this school, but it doesn't sound like a k thru 12 school that is covered by the IC, so how could this be a test case?
Irresponsible gun owner, yes, bad! Lawbreaker, I wouldn't think so if it's a post high school, trade school thing. I'm sure he broke some rules, but not the law. Correct me if I be wrong.

It is considered a school.

Kokomo-Center Schools provides a healthy and safe environment for our diverse student population in a culture of excellence and achievement. Kokomo-Center Schools is committed to offering choices to our parents concerning their children’s education. In addition to our Traditional curriculum (K-12), Kokomo-Center presently offers International schools for K-8 students, a Career school for 8th-graders in cooperation with our career center, and alternative schools for middle school (6-8) and high school (9-12) students.

 

[long coat]

IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

No longer works for school: Fail
Failed to secure or maintain possession: Fail
Bad test case

When it was taken to school he work for the school. Now, not keeping it on him, not so good, but I can leave a gun in a car & be just fine (just not at school).
I also wonder if it was the wife.

 

[Destro]

IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.




When it was taken to school he work for the school. Now, not keeping it on him, not so good, but I can leave a gun in a car & be just fine (just not at school).
I also wonder if it was the wife.

so the school authroized him?

 

[long coat]

so the school authroized him?

(2) A person who has been employed by
to perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.

They didn't need to, he worked for them & was teaching. Teaching is an school function or activity authorized by a school.

 

[92ThoStro]

long coat, you are gravely mistaken, and your advice will cause many teachers to lose their jobs and end up with felonies that they WILL be convicted of. Where have you been during the last few months? Even Guy himself is giving free training to teachers AUTHORIZED by the school to carry a firearm. He wanted written permission from the school board. Being a teacher is not AUTHORIZATION to carry a firearm on school property. You cannot even leave it in your vehicle on school property, only if you are dropping off, or picking up a student can you have one in your vehicle, and you can't exit the vehicle, and it's best to not shut the car off.

 

[long coat]

Yes, I know what Guy wants. Did you read the law? The word "or" is in it.
"employed or authorized" There is no case law. IANAL

 

[DC47374]

Honestly I'm kind of appalled that people are defending his actions. It was absolutely reckless. The gun was loaded and not secured in a school, regardless if it was hidden in a drop ceiling. That's just not good enough. Keep it on you or keep it locked up. Don't leave it in a ceiling, for God knows how long. This is not responsible gun ownership!

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Honestly I'm kind of appalled that people are defending his actions. It was absolutely reckless. The gun was loaded and not secured in a school, regardless if it was hidden in a drop ceiling. That's just not good enough. Keep it on you or keep it locked up. Don't leave it in a ceiling, for God knows how long. This is not responsible gun ownership!

There is a big difference between defending one's actions and believing they should not be a crime. Keep that in mind.

 

[kludge]

No longer works for school: Fail
Failed to secure or maintain possession: Fail
Bad test case

Technically not in possession after he resigned. That said, I don't think the intent of the phrasing of the code means what some people have said is a possible interpretation.

Failed to secure = fail .... agreed.

 

[HoughMade]

Yes, I know what Guy wants. Did you read the law? The word "or" is in it.
"employed or authorized" There is no case law. IANAL

I will agree that the punctuation in that section is suspect, however that is no basis for teachers to start carrying without fear of prosecution.....or at least getting fired since the statute has nothing to do with actions that can be taken by an employer.

....and you neglected to include the title of that section. The Title of a section can be used as part of the interpretation of a statute, even though it is not that common. The title is: "Security Guards- School Functions".

It is highly likely that the statute will be interpreted to apply to people employed or authorized to act as security guards at school functions- as the section is titled.

Could the ambiguity be used to defeat a conviction? Perhaps, but if someone plans to use it as a "test case" any precedent established, after being arrested and spending a few years and a lot of money, will be wiped out when the statute is amended to remove the ambiguity.

 

[jedi]

IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.




When it was taken to school he work for the school. Now, not keeping it on him, not so good, but I can leave a gun in a car & be just fine (just not at school).
I also wonder if it was the wife.

so the school authroized him?

(2) A person who has been employed by
to perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.

They didn't need to, he worked for them & was teaching. Teaching is an school function or activity authorized by a school.

long coat, you are gravely mistaken, and your advice will cause many teachers to lose their jobs and end up with felonies that they WILL be convicted of. Where have you been during the last few months? Even Guy himself is giving free training to teachers AUTHORIZED by the school to carry a firearm. He wanted written permission from the school board. Being a teacher is not AUTHORIZATION to carry a firearm on school property. You cannot even leave it in your vehicle on school property, only if you are dropping off, or picking up a student can you have one in your vehicle, and you can't exit the vehicle, and it's best to not shut the car off.

We have been through this before here on INGO. The law currenlty has no test case.

East Chicago in 2011 had a similar issue where a school worker (ie. bus aide) had a gun on him while working on the school bus.
E.C. bus aide suspended after alleged gun incident : East Chicago Community News

The gun fellout of his pants. He was NOT arrested nor charged. Instead the city just fired him.

Why? The city did not want to try it's luck with the gray area of the law and figured it was just easier to fire him and the aide was not going to sue them either.

Discussion on INGO on that case here:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...us_aid_had_gun_on_bus_no_charges_filed-2.html

I will agree that the punctuation in that section is suspect, however that is no basis for teachers to start carrying without fear of prosecution.....or at least getting fired since the statute has nothing to do with actions that can be taken by an employer.

....and you neglected to include the title of that section. The Title of a section can be used as part of the interpretation of a statute, even though it is not that common. The title is: "Security Guards- School Functions".

It is highly likely that the statute will be interpreted to apply to people employed or authorized to act as security guards at school functions- as the section is titled.

Could the ambiguity be used to defeat a conviction? Perhaps, but if someone plans to use it as a "test case" any precedent established, after being arrested and spending a few years and a lot of money, will be wiped out when the statute is amended to remove the ambiguity.

Agree ^

 

[kludge]

(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.

I agree that there is ambiguity here. This is how i believe the law was intended to be interpreted...

A person who has been employed by a school to act as a security guard or authorized by a school to act as a security guard...

 

[long coat]

I never said they wouldn't be fired.

Kludge: if you are right then what is the "other activity"?

Can anyone find any update on the Ben Davis janitor that had a gun and pot at school. Last time I looked all that was said was he was arrested and charged, but nothing more.

We also don't know what would happen if you are eating and a bus pulls in with load of kids.

 

[SmileDocHill]

I've closed a couple other dupe threads that got too long to merge and maintain a flow.

See here for possible other beneficial conversation.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...eacher_arrested_for_having_gun_at_school.html

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...rested_for_stashing_loaded_gun_at_school.html

 

[kludge]

Kludge: if you are right then what is the "other activity"?

My asst. principle had a starters pistol for track meets. My brother and another person I know were in the fall musical "Oklahoma" and both carried guns in holsters on stage. The lead in the play fired a blank on stage - the gun was very real. (My dad took out the cylinder of his old Ruger Single Six - which is how the base pin latch got lost, which Ruger refused to sell me unless I sent them the gun for a safety "improvement", which I finally found at Numrich and did it myself.) Some schools, at least they used to, have rifle teams that practiced and took rifles on buses to matches. Stuff like that I suppose.

 

[DC47374]

There is a big difference between defending one's actions and believing they should not be a crime. Keep that in mind.

TF....I'm with you on most things, but this is pure negligence and it is reckless. You just can't leave a loaded gun laying around...whether it's in a ceiling or in a drawer that is unsecured, especially in a school. I'm all for getting rid of GFZ's and all the other stuff, but that doesn't mean there is no longer any responsibility. The guy acted irresponsible and should be held accountable. Unfortunately you can't just charge the guy with being stupid....because I fear we already have a crowding problem in jails...lol

 

[Titanium_Frost]

TF....I'm with you on most things, but this is pure negligence and it is reckless. You just can't leave a loaded gun laying around...whether it's in a ceiling or in a drawer that is unsecured, especially in a school. I'm all for getting rid of GFZ's and all the other stuff, but that doesn't mean there is no longer any responsibility. The guy acted irresponsible and should be held accountable. Unfortunately you can't just charge the guy with being stupid....because I fear we already have a crowding problem in jails...lol

Exactly why I do not agree with what this guy did, but feel that it does NOT bear a felony. Agree?

OR do you think it is OK to charge people for crimes because you do not like how they store their firearms?

 

[Bunnykid68]

Where is the corpus delicti?

 

[Bunnykid68]

TF....I'm with you on most things, but this is pure negligence and it is reckless. You just can't leave a loaded gun laying around...whether it's in a ceiling or in a drawer that is unsecured, especially in a school. I'm all for getting rid of GFZ's and all the other stuff, but that doesn't mean there is no longer any responsibility. The guy acted irresponsible and should be held accountable. Unfortunately you can't just charge the guy with being stupid....because I fear we already have a crowding problem in jails...lol

I left my keys in my truck, it is a very big truck and very dangerous in the wrong hands. Oh, and I have been drinking adult beverages, but I am scared to get my keys out of the truck for fear of being charged with DUI

 

[public servant]

Exactly why I do not agree with what this guy did, but feel that it does NOT bear a felony. Agree?

OR do you think it is OK to charge people for crimes because you do not like how they store their firearms?

Would you be OK with it if he was charged with a misdemeanor?