Long range shooting - 1,000 yards

[amboy49]

Not sure where this topic goes but I’ll start here. One of my friends asked my advice for which scope to put on his newly acquired 6.5 Creedmore. He wants to use the gun out west to hunt with shots out to 1,000 yards. (I don’t agree with the ethics of a thousand yard shot on a game animal, but would like to save that issue for another day.

He chose a Bergara Premier HMR Pro rifle and asked about a scope. He indicated he would like something in the 4x32x56 variety. My response was that he’d never be able to get effective use of a 32x scope in a hunting situation unless he was resting from a bench. Additionally, I questioned :

Where he would be able to shoot to zero the rifle and then be able to set up the dope for a range out to 1,000 yards ?

Where was he gonna get sufficient ammo that was reasonably priced ? I did offer to reload for him if he could find the components.

What kind of spotting scope did he plan to use ? And who was going to spot for him during field conditions ?

He said he was considering a Nightforce but wasn’t sure he wanted to spend “that much” on the scope. I replied he might want to consider spending as much on the scope as he does on the gun. And. . . . . not to cheap out on the bases and rings. At greater distances it’s been my experience that scopes over 24x are more of a hindrance than a help. Parallax, wind drift, ,mirage, diminished field of view, and other factors come in to play at those distances.

So, if I’m not going to be able to talk him out of shooting at an extreme range, what suggestions would anyone give for scope brand name, magnification, and field of view ? My initial reaction was something in the higher end Vortex line (?) Or. . . . . . . ?
Perhaps not more than 24x with some type of long range crosshair.

My shooting experience has been out to about 500 yards on western prairie dogs with bolt action heavy barrel .22 caliber rifles using a 4x16x50scope where misses aren’t critical and there is no concern in wounding an animal.

Hoping to get any and all advice from folks who have done some long range shooting. Dope on the 6.5 would also be great. Info like scope selection, reloading advice, component availability, range access (Atterbury ?), etc.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Twangbanger]

IIRC, he'll need to be about 30~34" high at 100 yds., depending on load. That will get him in Crosley Field. He can use ballistic calculators to get in the ballpark on elevation, but will still need to check windage at a couple distances, because things can wander there due to equipment setup, as well.

If he's dead serious about this, I'd recommend he get some kind of 4x16 with good quality glass, find a range to practice, dial it up, and whack away. Maybe a 6x24 if he's feeling frisky.

Such a scope will still be useful to him on other guns, when he figures out the folly of this, and gives up. He can dial the mag back down, and do normal things with it, instead of just selling it.

(You are correct, NO business shooting at animals, at his experience level).

 

[mark40sw]

He is completely clueless on shooting at extended distances, and now plans on landing hits on the vitals at 1k yards... in the field?

 

[avboiler11]

1000 yard shots on game with a 6.5 Creedmoor?

No, just, no.

Some people have certainly done that, but they can consistently put a bullet on a half MOA target at that range, in the wind. I’m guessing the person discussed doesn’t have that experience or skill.

A 300 Norma Mag won’t fix that problem either.

 

[natdscott]

1000 yard shots on game with a 6.5 Creedmoor?

No, just, no.

Some people have certainly done that, but they can consistently put a bullet on a half MOA target at that range, in the wind. I’m guessing the person discussed doesn’t have that experience or skill.

A 300 Norma Mag won’t fix that problem either.

The ThneedMoor would be fine at a K on game…

…if the “game” is a pdog.

 

[42769vette]

In my experience, if you have to ask what scope for shooting game at 1k, you shouldn't be shooting game at 1k.

With that said if he knew the answer, this would be one of his front runners.

Razor HD LHT 4.5-22x50 FFP Riflescope XLR-2 MOA

 

[edwea]

Few things could discourage a novice from hunting at 1000 yds like target shooting at 1000 yds. I say help him set up this sweet rig, then help him part it back out and sell off once he wises up.

 

[drm-hp]

Tell him to get this scope:

COMPETITION - BLACK - 15-55x52mm - Nightforce Optics

The exceptional resolving power of the Competition’s ED glass, combined with our lens coatings and uncompromising construction techniques perfected over more than 20 years, means that all of the Competition’s magnification range produces outstanding clarity…not just a portion of it, as is often...

www.nightforceoptics.com

When he realizes the folly of his ways, suggest he sell it to me at a substantial discount!

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Your friend doesn't want to hunt at 1k. Your friend wants to watch that long range hunting show and jaw about how he is going to buy one of those fancy turrets someday.

Don't waste your time.

 

[clayshooter99]

I have seen these type of guys out west for years.....they are normally the ones who wound more game than others or blow the a** off the deer or antelope. Then they sit around at night drinking beer and talking about the 5 shots it took to get that animal, by that time the body has been shot and lots of meat lost.

 

[TJ Kackowski]

Thankfully the knowledgeable crew has already weighed in ... your friend has some high hopes for his rifle shooting. However, if you want to get him some time at 1,000 yds. before he maims an animal, check out what CIHPRS offers at Camp Atterbury ... plenty of opportunities in 2022 for him to figure out what he is capable of ... https://cihprs.wildapricot.org/ ... if actually shooting at 1,000 yds. doesn't get him squared away, then let him learn the hard way.

 

[Leo]

One problem with setting up a scope for 1000 yards is the need for tapered scope mounts to get the required elevation. As mentioned, with a 1000 yard zero, the rifle will shoot in the neighborhood 30 plus inches high at 100. There will not be enough adjustment to adjust the scope for 100, 200 and 300 yards, the more usual hunting zeros.

I am sure the Creedmore will make 1000 yards, especially with all the high BC bullets available in 6,5 mm. I was reasonably successful with the .260 Remington. Since reading the wind is EVERYTHING at 1000, a higher performance cartridge will help cheat the wind drift a little. 6.5 X 284 was my favorite. There are several other high performance 6.5 mm rounds, but they are few and far between.

 

[Tombs]

He wants to use the gun out west to hunt with shots out to 1,000 yards.

He chose a Bergara Premier HMR Pro rifle and asked about a scope.

He said he was considering a Nightforce but wasn’t sure he wanted to spend “that much” on the scope.

Your friend should lurk around a knowledgeable community for awhile before coming up with these crazy ideals. If he's planning on 1k shots "in the field" and a $2k+ scope is spendy for him, I'm not sure he has the stomach for supporting equipment, or even getting to a place where this is a practical reality.

If he's not already handloading, that's where he's going to need to start. That, a range finder, a chronograph, and preferably a good set of gauges and scales.

He needs to develop a load that he has intimate levels of knowledge and confidence in, across various conditions, for his specific rifle with its specific barrel. He needs to know the velocity changes and accuracy changes as the copper equilibrium in the barrel changes.

He then needs to become very good at understanding and estimating ranges in the field, reading the wind and its direction at various points down range, and understanding how elevation relative to your target affects your dope.

I think he'd do well to pick up some books on the topic, as well as get a membership to a range where he could practice this on a regular enough basis to validate the rifle, the optic, and the load can do this consistently enough to be practical.

For a scope, I'd probably be taking a look at an IOR Recon, as that 40mm tube might help with light in field conditions on higher magnification. And they're very durable optics with excellent tracking.

 

[Tombs]

One problem with setting up a scope for 1000 yards is the need for tapered scope mounts to get the required elevation. As mentioned, with a 1000 yard zero, the rifle will shoot in the neighborhood 30 plus inches high at 100. There will not be enough adjustment to adjust the scope for 100, 200 and 300 yards, the more usual hunting zeros.

I am sure the Creedmore will make 1000 yards, especially with all the high BC bullets available in 6,5 mm. I was reasonably successful with the .260 Remington. Since reading the wind is EVERYTHING at 1000, a higher performance cartridge will help cheat the wind drift a little. 6.5 X 284 was my favorite. There are several other high performance 6.5 mm rounds, but they are few and far between.

It ain't dropping that much... It's still super sonic around 1400 yards with a decent high BC bullet.

You wouldn't zero for 1000, you zero for 100 and just dial it in.

With a hornady 147gr, you'd be at 29.5 MOA of drop at 1000, which practically any scope will dial in pretty easily without needing an angled base. If you have a standard MOA or Mil type reticle, most reticles will be able to compensate for that much on their own pretty easily.

 

[Twangbanger]

As has been alluded-to here, the 6.5 will have a residual velocity just over the speed of sound at 1,000 yards, giving an on-target power somewhere around a 40 S&W at the muzzle. (Ask your friend if he considers 40SW an adequate choice for game hunting).

And...even if just grazing, the animal can reasonably move an entire "deer-length" in the time it takes the bullet to get there.

Really, he's going to have enough problem just finding animals at those ranges. It's not realistic on his own. He'd need a guide, and that person is not likely to glass-up animals beyond 400 yards for such a client...they're going to steer him toward game at distances which are more reasonable. If he's a newbie, I think he'll be surprised at what it will take to get vital hits on animals at 300~400 yards.

(But as has been mentioned above, there's a nice cut-price scope and/or rifle for you in this, if you play it right).

 

[Twangbanger]

It ain't dropping that much... It's still super sonic around 1400 yards with a decent high BC bullet.

You wouldn't zero for 1000, you zero for 100 and just dial it in.

With a hornady 147gr, you'd be at 29.5 MOA of drop at 1000, which practically any scope will dial in pretty easily without needing an angled base. If you have a standard MOA or Mil type reticle, most reticles will be able to compensate for that much on their own pretty easily.

1) Tombs, check my actual velocities in the table below, measured speeds at 1,000 yards under actual firing conditions. Most are in the 1200s. These are Hornady 140gr. VLD bullets measured by Silver Mountain target systems crossing the traps at 1,000 yards Atterbury. I haven't run the numbers, but at the rate things are dropping at that distance, I highly doubt they would have still been supersonic at 1,400 yards.

Look at the horizontal dispersion in my group, and compare it to the vertical. I'm shooting pretty decent, for me, prone with sling in this string, nothing like the good shooters...but...look how much vertical stringing you can get with a velocity Standard Deviation of just 20 fps!





2) You cannot just zero at 100 yards and "dial in" a thousand. As I recall, even after I set up at 31" high at 100 yards, based on ballistic tables, it still took me a few shots to get on a forty-plus-inch paper at 1,000, and that was with a spotter helping me by focusing a spotting scope at halfway distance, and observing bullet refraction trails in the air.

There is a lot to this!

 

[55fairlane]

1000 yards thru the irons....PALMA ...... 155 grain , 308 win.....you don't need no stinking optic to go 1000 yards.....and shot with a sling...no bi-pod

 

[natdscott]

1000 yards thru the irons....PALMA ...... 155 grain , 308 win.....you don't need no stinking optic to go 1000 yards.....and shot with a sling...no bi-pod

Psh. Who needs Palma sights?!

A2 FTW…. Lmao!!

 

[indyjohn]

.... and that was with a spotter helping me by focusing a spotting scope at halfway distance, and observing bullet refraction trails in the air.

Been there, done that....

 

[indyjohn]

Psh. Who needs Palma sights?!

A2 FTW…. Lmao!!

I don't recall, was there any front post left after you prepared it for 1,000 yd work???