Marion County Water Ban

[JimmyJames]

All natural resources should be controlled by the state.... water, coal, oil, metals, etc.

Also, there should be a carbon tax to control global warming so we don't have hot weather like this that dries up our lawns and destroys our crops.

If you won't do it for yourself, the state will do it for your children.

 

[88GT]

Anybody know if the violations are property violations or individual violations?

Indy Water is notorious for slapping the property owner with the issues. Case in point: they'll put a lien on the property if the water/sewer bill isn't paid by the tenant, knowing it's a tenant. (This is state law and only applies to people with sewer, I believe.)

Wondering if I need to send a notice to tenants. It's gonna hurt if they get cited and I get the bill for it.

 

[traderdan]

Looking forward to seeing all the dirty firetrucks and police cars in Marion Co.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Looking forward to seeing all the dirty firetrucks and police cars in Marion Co.

First of all, commercial operations such as car washes aren't affected by the ban. Secondly, fire departments usually wash their own equipment and, except for post-fire cleanup, I wouldn't expect that any fire apparatus will be washed until after the ban is lifted.

I would HOPE that the Mayor and Sheriff would tell the employees under their authority not to wash their public vehicles until after the ban is lifted, but I don't know that is the case.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Frankly, I was hoping to spark a little more discussion along the lines of what Fletch had to say or even the question that 88GT had, rather than snarky comments.

Let's stipulate that in a totally free-market economy, a water shortage would result in higher prices, thus, hopefully reducing consumption. However, let us posit that voluntary restrictions haven't resulted in enough reduced consumption to significantly reduce water consumption. The current drought is already severe enough that it is likely to cause a greatly decreased food crop this year, especially in corn. Since most people aren't likely to understand how scarce the water supply is getting, is any entity - governmental or non-governmental - justified in placing restrictions on water usage?

 

[Clay]

Yes, but the code nazis will ding you for brown grass and tall grass. Brown grass is a weapon.

are you kidding?? you can get a ticket for brown grass??

 

[Clay]

Wondering if I need to send a notice to tenants. It's gonna hurt if they get cited and I get the bill for it.

Just curious, but did you address this in your contract with them?

 

[Jake46184]

They're being citizens with common sense. Central Indiana has never seen a period like this in recorded history at this time of year. At my house, we have not had rain of any measure since May 4th. If the last half of the summer is typically dry, after this unprecedented dry period, we are going to have a helluva lot of problems.

There are idiots who won't do as they're told unless they are smacked with a hefty fine for not heeding the ban. It is far more cost-effective for citizens to report violators than to have the police trying to patrol literally 100% of their service area to look for them. We WANT citizens doing so.

 

[hornadylnl]

Frankly, I was hoping to spark a little more discussion along the lines of what Fletch had to say or even the question that 88GT had, rather than snarky comments.

Let's stipulate that in a totally free-market economy, a water shortage would result in higher prices, thus, hopefully reducing consumption. However, let us posit that voluntary restrictions haven't resulted in enough reduced consumption to significantly reduce water consumption. The current drought is already severe enough that it is likely to cause a greatly decreased food crop this year, especially in corn. Since most people aren't likely to understand how scarce the water supply is getting, is any entity - governmental or non-governmental - justified in placing restrictions on water usage?

If the water supply got short enough, the prices would get high enough that people will stop using it unless absolutely necessary.

What is your position? Should cops be patrolling to find abusers or should neighbors call them in?

 

[ChrisBarnes]

I love the fact I live in the country and do not have to worry about big brother for the small things. Yes I have not watered my lawn this year but to Heck if you think I am not going to water my garden.

 

[Jake46184]

If the water supply got short enough, the prices would get high enough that people will stop using it unless absolutely necessary.

This is a misunderstanding. Water is not a commodity that has a price driven by market forces. The Indiana Utility Regulatory Commission enforces the price which has been set by law. Whether the water company has a trillion gallons in reserve, or only one gallon, the metered price for the water would be the same.

As the reserves drop, the ability of the water company to maintain pressure in lines, including fire hydrants, drops as well. Also, Indianapolis has the largest surface water source supply of any city in America. As the water level drops, the cost to treat water coming from those sources skyrockets.

The average idiot will continue to use water without regard to the conditions, and what it means for the future, until he is forced not to do so. We want citizens notifying the police of violators. It is far more economical than having the cops driving up and down each street daily looking or them. It also helps to modify the behavior of those who society does not want acting in a manner inconsistent with the mutual benefit of said society. Turning in your neighbor is good for all of us.

 

[Fletch]

Since most people aren't likely to understand how scarce the water supply is getting, is any entity - governmental or non-governmental - justified in placing restrictions on water usage?

I was kind of boggled by the idea of water restrictions in frickin' Indiana... just south of the world's largest supply of fresh water.

You raise a good point about societal awareness. Out here, water conservation is not something people just blithely ignore. Our local utility tells us there's problems, and people stop watering and conserve, especially out in the rural areas where I am. There's a cultural memory of the Dust Bowl. We're the same way about grassfires and tornadoes -- people just pay attention, because it's pretty clear that our own welfare is at stake.

The further west I go, the more concerned with water conservation and fire prevention people are. My friends in Arizona and Utah take it pretty damned seriously.

I would expect those issues to be a much harder sell in the Great Lakes region. I lived in Detroit in the 90's, and while there were some watering restrictions because the utilities were so old and decrepit, most people seemed to ignore them. They didn't have the same attitude towards watching out for things like I've seen in Oklahoma. So, as long as we're going to pretend that monolithic public utilities are a preferable alternative to a free market, I think it's probably going to have to be something of a jackboot situation to give people the proper respect for resource conservation.

Or you could just run out your water and wonder how much it's going to cost you to do your dishes, showers, laundry, and so forth with this:

 

[Fletch]

This is a misunderstanding. Water is not a commodity that has a price driven by market forces. The Indiana Utility Regulatory Commission enforces the price which has been set by law. Whether the water company has a trillion gallons in reserve, or only one gallon, the metered price for the water would be the same.

And this is foolishness, IMO. The price should be free to fluctuate with market conditions, and competing utilities should be allowed to enter the market. That's how you solve shortages.

 

[Denny347]

Looking forward to seeing all the dirty firetrucks and police cars in Marion Co.

I wash mine at Mike's Car wash...they recycle all their water. So, YES, I WILL have my patrol car washed.

 

[Denny347]

are you kidding?? you can get a ticket for brown grass??

NOPE

 

[Denny347]

Should cops be patrolling to find abusers or should neighbors call them in?

I have NO IDEA what city code to cite them for.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

IMO the sad part is that it does take a government measure before the majority of people act responsibly. You should KNOW in a drought to let your lawn suffer a little so you can preserve the water you do have.

Just like the fireworks ban. Anybody dumb enough to shoot off fireworks when things are as dry as they are and are fighting grass fires and burning buildings on a DAILY basis has more than a screw loose, yet it took county wide bans before people stopped and they still shot some off by me... And continue to do so every night.

 

[Denny347]

I love the fact I live in the country and do not have to worry about big brother for the small things. Yes I have not watered my lawn this year but to Heck if you think I am not going to water my garden.

I would argue that food should be/is exempt. I could be wrong but you have a garden to provide sustenance and it this economy, it is cheaper to have a garden than to go to the grocery. So without the garden, you would not be able to afford the buy replacement.

 

[hornadylnl]

This is a misunderstanding. Water is not a commodity that has a price driven by market forces. The Indiana Utility Regulatory Commission enforces the price which has been set by law. Whether the water company has a trillion gallons in reserve, or only one gallon, the metered price for the water would be the same.

As the reserves drop, the ability of the water company to maintain pressure in lines, including fire hydrants, drops as well. Also, Indianapolis has the largest surface water source supply of any city in America. As the water level drops, the cost to treat water coming from those sources skyrockets.

The average idiot will continue to use water without regard to the conditions, and what it means for the future, until he is forced not to do so. We want citizens notifying the police of violators. It is far more economical than having the cops driving up and down each street daily looking or them. It also helps to modify the behavior of those who society does not want acting in a manner inconsistent with the mutual benefit of said society. Turning in your neighbor is good for all of us.

I realize that water isn't currently a commodity. We can let the free market decide. People will use the amount of water they feel like paying for. Free choice between buyer and seller. Or we can do it your way. By force. And we wonder why we have a police state.

 

[Boost Lee]

Scenario 1:

Neighbor shoots off left over fireworks tonight; backfires, catches my bushes on fire. My property is going a-flame.

I stand there and hope it rains so my neighbor isn't breaking the law with the fire ban,
and not use my water hose to put out the fire because we can't use excess water...
The end.

Apply purple to where you think it goes.