McCain's Terror Bill: American citizens will be sent to military prisons

[Expat]

It is heart warming to know our government cares so much about us.

 

[Keith_Indy]

If you are referring to my comment, I know the Japanese were not Nazi saboteurs. I was simply referring to his comment that only a couple US citizens were rounded up and detained when this was not the case.

Well, it seems clear to me that he was specifically talking about Nazi saboteurs, which included a few American citizens.

You're trying to argue something not included in his post.

With regard to this bill that was passed, every credible source of legal opinion I've read said that all it does is continue the status quo. The military only has the powers to hold an American citizen that it had before this bill was passed.

There's enough going on right now that is threatening our liberty and well being, that we shouldn't obsess over what might happen down the road if some law or another is abused. That's my position. YMMV

 

[Kirk Freeman]

With regard to this bill that was passed, every credible source of legal opinion I've read said that all it does is continue the status quo. The military only has the powers to hold an American citizen that it had before this bill was passed.

And just exactly how is reason going to help with making a another hysterical thread on INGO?

 

[TaunTaun]

And just exactly how is reason going to help with making a another hysterical thread on INGO?

How DARE you bring reason into this!

 

[Blackhawk2001]

The Japanese-American internment was something entirely different from what the current bill is supposed to address. It was later repudiated by the government and because it happened, I don't expect to see a federal government attempt to justify something similar - nor the Supreme Court to agree to - similar internments along racial lines although I can certainly envision attempts to round up US citizens using a different justification. However, THIS PARTICULAR LAW won't provide that justification.

 

[Keith_Indy]

And just exactly how is reason going to help with making a another hysterical thread on INGO?

Wish it were only INGO, this thing is spreading like a virus, and sucking up time that could be spent debating actual issues. Almost like it was meant to distract us.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So, Rambone is part of the . . . *whisper* conspiracy?

C . . . F . . . R.

 

[ATOMonkey]

I fail to see how this bill would protect our Liberty or provide one of the enumerated services.

On that alone, I'm against it. The potential for abuse is just icing on the cake.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Silly question...

If this bill only continues the status quo and nothing will change...what's the point in passing it?

 

[Keith_Indy]

Silly question...

If this bill only continues the status quo and nothing will change...what's the point in passing it?

It only continues the status quo w/ regards to American citizens. It codifies the indefinite detention of terrorists by the military. If my reading of legal experts is correct...

 

[thebishopp]

Purple indicates sarcasm on this forum. Re-read his post but when you hear it in your head, add a touch of indignant sarcasm, maybe a haughty flair of self righteousness, and it will sound better. In fact, try a british accent like some twit from "The Patriot". That should do it.

You are quite correct sir The British accent would indeed be a nice touch. "come see the violence inherent in the system!"

 

[thebishopp]

I am sorry, being new to this forum I had no idea.

Well that makes me feel so much better about thebishopp. I was hoping Ashton Kutcher would come out and say you been punked.

Now I know. Thank you.

**hangs head down and slinks away**

No problem Super Bee. I am actually of Japanese decent (My mother is Chinese - Japanese - Hawaiian and my father is Italian - Iroquois). My grandfather (mom's side) is 100% Japanese and is from Hawaii (where I was born and raised myself). There are more than just a few members in my family which experienced that "incident" first hand so I do know it actually did happen. My purple comment is merely reciting what people who do not want to believe always seem to say, sometimes verbatim.

 

[Bunnykid68]

You are quite correct sir The British accent would indeed be a nice touch. "come see the violence inherent in the system!"

Help help, I am being repressed

 

[cqcn88]

It only continues the status quo w/ regards to American citizens. It codifies the indefinite detention of terrorists by the military. If my reading of legal experts is correct...

So if nothing has changed, when was it that we gave up the 5th and 6th amendments and why is there such an uproar about the bill? And I don't mean just on this forum, I mean why are some of the most civil liberty minded congressmen standing up to question it and vote it down? Also, you said every legal opinion you've read has stated that this bill is nothing to worry about, at least as far as anything changing. I would like to read these legal opinions because everything I've read has alluded to the opposite.

 

[thebishopp]

The Japanese-American internment was something entirely different from what the current bill is supposed to address. It was later repudiated by the government and because it happened, I don't expect to see a federal government attempt to justify something similar - nor the Supreme Court to agree to - similar internments along racial lines although I can certainly envision attempts to round up US citizens using a different justification. However, THIS PARTICULAR LAW won't provide that justification.

I agree with you regarding envisioning "attempts to round up U.S. Citizens using a different justification".

However.

In the matter of the Japanese-American internment whatever platitudes the government gave when it was all over does little to help the people who went through it.f Nor did it stop it from happening in the first place (much like the gun confiscations in New Orleans). Families were sometimes separated and incarcerated in different camps. Most of the 110,000 were school age children and young adults not yet of voting age. Some died due to lack of medical attention and some were killed by the military for allegedly "resisting orders".

Of course more than 50 years later surviving victims were given 20k and an apology that more than made up for it all.

"Executive Order 9066 was justified as a "military necessity" to protect against domestic espionage and sabotage." Does anything about that statement sound familiar?

While I too doubt that such an action would be openly "race based" (though possibly a round up of people with Arabic backgrounds or Muslim/Islamic beliefs would not be entirely far fetched) one only needs to replace the word "japanese-american" with "terrorist" or "suspected terrorist".

My understanding of "this particular law" allows military action against U.S. Citizens who are accused of being "terrorists" or "suspected terrorist". Am I misunderstanding this?

An interesting bit is that Executive Order 9066 does not specify "japanese-american" as spies and sabatuers, apparently though it was the primary reason that one would be "suspected" of being such. Much like several of the publicized "reassons" one could be "suspected" of being a "terrorist". But not to worry, I'm sure it was felt that Executive Order 9066 was nothing to worry about at the time either.

 

[.45 Dave]

It occurs to me that Lincoln, that revered President, did a similar thing during the Civil War. Pro-south or states rights newspapers were shut down and dissidents or those suspected of southern sympathies were locked up without trial. In WWII, as has been cited, Japanese-Americans were locked up in "relocation camps". Point is, America has a history of dealing this way with perceived threats to its policies during war time. Now, if this is considered a war (as has been shown by the language in the bill) then I imagine it can also be used to lock up anyone today by simply declaring them potential terrorists. Militia members, gun enthusiasts who strongly dislike whatever the current administration might be, protesters, or any kind of dissenter is potentially at risk.
No matter how you spin it, this bill is not good!
We are stepping ever closer to the time when someone far worse and more driven than Obama can turn the American dream into a dictatorial nightmare!! And it won't matter what party they represent--A dictator is still a dictator.

 

[rambone]

New Senate bill counters the NDAA

Sen. Diane Feinstein (D-CA) has introduced a bill to counter the tyranny of the National Defense Authorization Act.

Rand Paul has cosponsored the bill.


Senators introduce the Due Process Guarantee Act

A bipartisan group of Senators have wasted no time in trying to apply a legislative fix to the “indefinite detention” language in the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), which was passed last night. The Due Process Guarantee Act (full text below), sponsored by Sen. Dianne Feinstein, would ensure the protections that the NDAA would seemingly erase:

Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, today introduced the Due Process Guarantee Act of 2011, legislation that states American citizens apprehended inside the United States cannot be indefinitely detained by the military. The Due Process Guarantee Act of 2011 amends the Non-Detention Act of 1971 by providing that a Congressional authorization for the use of military force does not authorize the indefinite detention—without charge or trial—of U.S. citizens who are apprehended domestically.
The Feinstein bill also codifies a “clear-statement rule” that requires Congress to expressly authorize detention authority when it comes to U.S. citizens and lawful permanent residents. The protections for citizens and lawful permanent residents is limited to those “apprehended in the United States” and excludes citizens who take up arms against the United States on a foreign battlefield, such as Afghanistan.​

 

[KG1]

Sen. Diane Feinstein (D-CA) has introduced a bill to counter the tyranny of the National Defense Authorization Act.

Rand Paul has cosponsored the bill.


Senators introduce the Due Process Guarantee Act

Well this should be interesting to see what kind of support they can drum up. They had a hard time and could'nt even get any major support to get any amendments into s.1867. I hope it gets somewhere on it's own

 

[rambone]

Federal Government Takes Final Step to Suspend Constitution

"Please know, what will come your way: death, detention, & prosecution. And when they say, 'I want my lawyer,' you tell them, 'Shut up, you don't get a lawyer.'" -- Sen. Lindsey Graham

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lwedx6kZhHg

 

[rambone]

Rachel Maddow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVhrfvt1BCc