Militia Takes Over Wildlife Refuge In Oregon

[Kutnupe14]

Now that I have had time to think about it a bit, I doubt that there would be much difference. After all, they would be seen as 'uncle Toms' if they were of the fiber to survive ranch life.

You can reel that nonsense in a bit, since you don't have a clue of what you're talking about. There's obviously a lot about America you don't know.

 

[MuttX7]

Oh Damn, that changes the ball game. I'm changing my opinion. They should go to jail.

If you read the news link on the first page, the father and son are ready to report for prison on Monday. It is the outsiders who came in that are occupying the wildlife refuge building:

The occupation is being led by hard-core militia who adopted the Hammond cause as their own.

Ammon Bundy met with Dwight Hammond and his wife in November, seeking a way to keep the elderly rancher from having to surrender for prison. The Hammonds professed through their attorneys that they had no interest in ignoring the order to report for prison.

Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers and miners. He said he met with 10 or so residents in Burns on Friday to try to recruit them, but they declined.

Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters | OregonLive.com

 

[jamil]

It sounds to me that their guilt isn't so much in question, but its their resentencing that has INGO riled up. I mean who doesn't like an uprising against "the man" story?

I'm kinda looking at this as a casual observer thinking both sides may be at fault, but the side taking up arms to control land that they don't own is flat out wrong. I don't think I'd be so far deep in the ideological weeds to say they're terrorists. But what the government has done to them does not give them the right to militantly occupy public land.

 

[Libertarian01]

These guys are terrorists.

They flew their plane over the federal land in order to see where they wanted to burn, set multiple fires on several different occasions, burned a neighbor's property, set property on fire where they knew there were firefighters in the immediate vicinity and actually threatened a firefighter that they'd say he was the one who set the fires if he told law enforcement what they had done.

http://landrights.org/or/Hammond/Hammond_superseding-indictment%20May%2017%202012.pdf

Yeah, it is kinda funny too how the other articles fail to mention the arson as a tool for destroying evidence of poaching, "Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property." Note that even if you discount the potentially unreliable relative due to being mentally unstable (which doesn't mean he's wrong, btw), there was still at least one (1) other witness to this.

Some of these folks seem to confuse Constitutionally protected rights as a "nobody-can-ever-tell-me-what-to-do" card.

While I still feel it is wrong for someone to go back to prison after serving time for their crime, the attack on on the Federal property causes my sympathy for attackers to diminish to zero, ESPECIALLY since no other tactics were even attempted first! Had there been a letter writing campaign, a "go-fund-me" campaign to pay for a strong legal defense, etc first, then upon failure a seizure of property I could at least have some sympathy for their position. Did they even ask the ACLU to represent them for free? But now they get no sympathy from me.

By sending out a request for armed assistance, is this not the same as treason?

Regards,

Doug

 

[printcraft]

We need to get some better descriptive acronyms............
I couldn't figure out what black lives matter had to do with this story.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Yeah, it is kinda funny too how the other articles fail to mention the arson as a tool for destroying evidence of poaching,

When you've got an agenda, you dress up the facts to meet that agenda. Poachers and arsonists don't draw as much sympathy as FREEDOM!!!!! ranchers.

I'm waiting to see how many Blood of Tyrants INGOers head on out there. I'm guessing none.

 

[Trigger Time]

Oh Damn, that changes the ball game. I'm changing my opinion. They should go to jail.

There are different versions to this story and also the judge didn't allow a lot of good evidence to be submitted. I think they got the shaft by the feds

 

[Rocket]

My issue is the double jeopardy problem. I think that is poop. I completely agree with jail time for crimes committed, if as stated, but not twice. The land invaders need to stop. Both BLM and The militia. But the end of this had the family losing their ranch. And more Americans Devided. The truth is out there! Not all here but somewhere in the middle

 

[Kutnupe14]

My issue is the double jeopardy problem. I think that is poop. I completely agree with jail time for crimes committed, but not twice. The land invaders need to stop. Both BLM and The militia. But the end of this had the family losing their ranch. And more Americans Devided.

It's not double jeopardy. The sentences appear to have been so short, that the Hammond's were let out prior to this working it way through the system, on appeal.

 

[Trigger Time]

When you've got an agenda, you dress up the facts to meet that agenda. Poachers and arsonists don't draw as much sympathy as FREEDOM!!!!! ranchers.

I'm waiting to see how many Blood of Tyrants INGOers head on out there. I'm guessing none.

I don't believe this will be "the shot heard round the world", but it shows a steady organized movement of Americans that are fed up with the government being above the law but stepping on the citizens at the same time. There are much more grevious constitutional violations that people should be up in arms about but I guess people are waiting for the right opportunity to have these concerns addressed. No I won't be going out to Oregon. It is not my fight. But I am happy to see some standing up against oppression.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

My issue is the double jeopardy problem. I think that is poop. I completely agree with jail time for crimes committed, if as stated, but not twice. The land invaders need to stop. Both BLM and The militia. But the end of this had the family losing their ranch. And more Americans Devided. The truth is out there! Not all here but somewhere in the middle

Double jeopardy is being tried for the same crime twice, this didn't occur. There was an appeal to the sentence. Just like you'd be resentenced if your prison term exceeded the statuary maximums, you'll be resentenced if they are under (and the minimums are found constitutional, etc. etc.)

 

[Rocket]

It's not double jeopardy. The sentences appear to have been so short, that the Hammond's were let out prior to this working it way through the system, on appeal.

Ahh, But since that was court ordered it would seem that way.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Now that I have had time to think about it a bit, I doubt that there would be much difference. After all, they would be seen as 'uncle Toms' if they were of the fiber to survive ranch life.

You can reel that nonsense in a bit, since you don't have a clue of what you're talking about. There's obviously a lot about America you don't know.

That turn of phrase may no longer be in common usage but, I see some significant double standards applied running both directions. Please don't even try to tell me that this is not applicable when anyone not living in a cave has had a steady stream of, on one hand, it being somehow racist to criticize anyone who happens to be black that fits a political narrative, yet these same people will launch a witch hunt on anyone who happens to be black who does NOT fit that political narrative. I may not have developed that though as well as I could have while having a moment of irritation, but nevertheless, there is a glaring double standard for which I have no use whatsoever and for some strange reason is commonly accepted.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

There are much more grevious constitutional violations that people should be up in arms about but I guess people are waiting for the right opportunity to have these concerns addressed.

Ah, the fat girls of revolutionaries. The revolution starts tomorrow...after I enjoy this big slice of modern society and it's freedom and comforts today.

 

[Kutnupe14]

That turn of phrase may no longer be in common usage but, I see some significant double standards applied running both directions. Please don't even try to tell me that this is not applicable when anyone not living in a cave has had a steady stream of, on one hand, it being somehow racist to criticize anyone who happens to be black that fits a political narrative, yet these same people will launch a witch hunt on anyone who happens to be black who does NOT fit that political narrative. I may not have developed that though as well as I could have while having a moment of irritation, but nevertheless, there is a glaring double standard for which I have no use whatsoever and for some strange reason is commonly accepted.

Black ranchers, farmers, and cowboys don't fit in any political narrative.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Black ranchers, farmers, and cowboys don't fit in any political narrative.

Darken the faces of the participants. Do you think the treatment they would be getting would be more Obama or more Clarence Thomas or Herman Cain?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Darken the faces of the participants. Do you think the treatment they would be getting would be more Obama or more Clarence Thomas or Herman Cain?

I think you're veering from conversation. The point I'm making, is that you'd be incorrect in assuming that black people view black ranchers and those of color, in similar fields, as "uncle Tom's." Unless Cain and Thomas have some sort of "Long Dong Godfather Ranch" Ive not heard about (thankfully), they have nothing to do with it.

 

[BugI02]

If the lengthy excerpt set out by Lebowski in post #16 is credible (requesting source) then this reads like an episode of into the badlands with BLM as the baron.
And are peeps really​ saying the DOJ and the US Attorneys office are above reproach and wouldn't tailor the evidence presented to fit the governments agenda in this matter?

 

[Kutnupe14]

If the lengthy excerpt set out by Lebowski in post #16 is credible (requesting source) then this reads like an episode of into the badlands with BLM as the baron.
And are peeps really​ saying the DOJ and the US Attorneys office are above reproach and wouldn't tailor the evidence presented to fit the governments agenda in this matter?

Are the defendants saying that evidence was "created?" Seems like there's way too many people offering testimony about the bad actions of the Hammond's for it to be a sham.

Kut (thinks somebody would have blown the whistle by now, if it was a sham)

 

[IndyDave1776]

I think you're veering from conversation. The point I'm making, is that you'd be incorrect in assuming that black people view black ranchers and those of color, in similar fields, as "uncle Tom's." Unless Cain and Thomas have some sort of "Long Dong Godfather Ranch" Ive not heard about (thankfully), they have nothing to do with it.

Thank you for demonstrating my point. The same people who declared it racist to dare to question Obama or his very sketchy past made a point of sifting for everything the other two did or were ever correctly or incorrectly accused of doing right back to the last time they sh*t their pants in childhood.