Militia Takes Over Wildlife Refuge In Oregon

[IndyDave1776]

Are the defendants saying that evidence was "created?" Seems like there's way too many people offering testimony about the bad actions of the Hammond's for it to be a sham.

Kut (thinks somebody would have blown the whistle by now, if it was a sham)

Why the restriction on favorable witnesses if it isn't a sham? Please don't tell me that it doesn't happen. I have seen it happen closer to home over far less important things (i.e., a judge not allowing one side to call favorable witnesses).

 

[Kutnupe14]

Thank you for demonstrating my point. The same people who declared it racist to dare to question Obama or his very sketchy past made a point of sifting for everything the other two did or were ever correctly or incorrectly accused of doing right back to the last time they sh*t their pants in childhood.

What sketchy past?

 

[Wild Deuce]

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[Kutnupe14]

Why the restriction on favorable witnesses if it isn't a sham? Please don't tell me that it doesn't happen. I have seen it happen closer to home over far less important things (i.e., a judge not allowing one side to call favorable witnesses).

You have some documentation on these favorable witnesses?

 

[IndyDave1776]

You have some documentation on these favorable witnesses?

Is my ass in a chair in the courthouse at the time good enough?

It may have been a civil matter rather than criminal, but still, the principle of a judge picking and choosing which side may or may not present witnesses is the same.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Is my ass in a chair in the courthouse at the time good enough?

It may have been a civil matter rather than criminal, but still, the principle of a judge picking and choosing which side may or may not present witnesses is the same.

I'm asking for a source, as currently, your claim is unfounded

 

[IndyDave1776]

I'm asking for a source, as currently, your claim is unfounded

You can believe whatever you like. Conversely, I assume that you can understand how little value I am going to place on your attempt to tell me that I did not see what in in fact saw happen.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Why the restriction on favorable witnesses if it isn't a sham? Please don't tell me that it doesn't happen. I have seen it happen closer to home over far less important things (i.e., a judge not allowing one side to call favorable witnesses).

Lawyers run the court system. Its not about the truth. Its about getting your truth in and keeping the other guy's truth out.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Lawyers run the court system. Its not about the truth. Its about getting your truth in and keeping the other guy's truth out.

Correct and concise. Hard combination to beat. Sometimes it is pretty flagrant, like affording the prosecution an entire week and the defense only one day. Sometimes even more so, like not allowing one side to call a single witness. That was a long day spend on a wooden chair that was harder than a brick when I could have been as well off anywhere else, and most likely been more comfortable.

 

[Caleb]

Has anyone besides Caleb watched the video interview?

https://www.facebook.com/bundyranch/videos/938588846217924/

doubt it

 

[IndyDave1776]

doubt it

I started to, but it was loading slow, and was running the way I was thinking in the first place.

 

[Wild Deuce]

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[dusty88]

From what I understand, there were hundreds there protesting peacefully. The Hammond family said they would turn themselves in and did not want an armed conflict.

It is a tiny segment of the protesters that chose to take over the federal building. They do not have the support of most of the other people there, nor of the locals.

While I think the government has abused this family and the entire process of federal land management, this doesn't seem the right process at the right time to become aggressive and law-breaking when those arrested don't want to participate.

I don't think we need to have another Waco, though. Just let them get bored.

 

[Wild Deuce]

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[dusty88]

Yeah, it is kinda funny too how the other articles fail to mention the arson as a tool for destroying evidence of poaching, "Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property." Note that even if you discount the potentially unreliable relative due to being mentally unstable (which doesn't mean he's wrong, btw), there was still at least one (1) other witness to this.

Some of these folks seem to confuse Constitutionally protected rights as a "nobody-can-ever-tell-me-what-to-do" card.

While I still feel it is wrong for someone to go back to prison after serving time for their crime, the attack on on the Federal property causes my sympathy for attackers to diminish to zero, ESPECIALLY since no other tactics were even attempted first! Had there been a letter writing campaign, a "go-fund-me" campaign to pay for a strong legal defense, etc first, then upon failure a seizure of property I could at least have some sympathy for their position. Did they even ask the ACLU to represent them for free? But now they get no sympathy from me.

By sending out a request for armed assistance, is this not the same as treason?

Regards,

Doug

the Hammonds did not ask for armed resistance.

In fact, they specifically declined it

They also have the written support of the Oregon Farm Bureau. Farm Bureau organizations are somewhat political and don't often speak out against the government.

https://www.oathkeepers.org/the-hammond-family-does/

 

[Kutnupe14]

You can believe whatever you like. Conversely, I assume that you can understand how little value I am going to place on your attempt to tell me that I did not see what in in fact saw happen.

What are you talking about? Are you saying you are involved in this case somehow?

 

[dusty88]

doubt it

I watched the video. The Bundys and other western ranchers are largely correct about the feds abusing power. And the feds get support from the majority of the population in the city who have no clue that things like "water rights" and "grazing rights" are not like "rentals". They are more akin to land ownership but are handled differently because of 1800 circumstances that caused the land to be kept as public.

All that being said, it's the wrong time and place to take over if the locals want no part of it. If they broke into a building (that part isn't clear to me) that's also not a way to win hearts and minds.

 

[Caleb]

A news outlet on facebook says there is now 300 people at the federal property

 

[gunsisgood]

obama orderd Hammond ranch destroyed

https://youtu.be/m6DCk_MkuIs

 

[JollyMon]

Tagging for updates