Militia Takes Over Wildlife Refuge In Oregon

[jamil]

Some people have lives to live.

The true 1%'ers?

 

[Kutnupe14]

The true 1%'ers?

Hmmm....

Kut (is trying to figure out if you're that clever, or it's just a coincidence)

 

[jamil]

Hmmm....

Kut (is trying to figure out if you're that clever, or it's just a coincidence)

I don't know about clever. I'm just implying that the people Waveraider is referring to are kinda rare, while also implying the traditional idea of what 1%'ers are, is nonsense.

 

[in625shooter]

Please tell me you're not in law enforcement, or even private security. At least, not anymore.

Actually yes I am.

 

[gundawg]

Just out of curiosity, why do you say that?

To be perfectly frank, because I question his judgment.

 

[gundawg]

Lost in all the conversation is the fact that their lawyer got arrested and Tased. I had to re-read that part of the news article I read to make sure I was seeing it right.

Am I the only one who thinks that's a bridge too far? You'd think the rest of the team would be outraged but I didn't see any comments as to such.

It seems completely over-the-top to me. I wasn't there, but generally speaking a lawyer running his mouth in the courtroom shouldn't result in a takedown and tazing, at least not until after the judge holds him in direct contempt and orders him taken into custody.

I suspect there is a lot of frustration among federal law enforcement surrounding this case. Seems like it got the better of them here. I wonder if the same US Attorney who rejected Ammon's offer to plead out is stupid enough to pursue charges against his lawyer for arguing he should be released or the records justifying his continued detention be produced.

 

[gundawg]

I understand that, but shouldn't that be the purview of the bailiffs and not Federal agents?

Federal marshals do the security in federal courts, but unless they're responding to an immediate threat the judge is in charge.

 

[gundawg]

​It was payback. The feds don't like losing what they think is a dead-bang case.

That's what it looks like to me too.

 

[voidsherpa]

It seems completely over-the-top to me.

Feds were pissed that they got put in their place.

 

[dusty88]

Last night I googled every news source I could find to piece together what really happened. I posted that upthread. There are still some missing pieces that justifies having 6 Marshals converge on him for a beat down.



Okay, have him removed, but jeez. Tasing him? Bull****. Stop resisting? How about not attacking in the first place. If he's hit with contempt for yelling at the judge, fine. Charge him. Arrest him. But it doesn't sound like that's what went down.

Normally i would say that not being there, I don't know what force was necessary, maybe the guy seemed a threat, etc. However, this isn't a guy on the street who could have reasonably been suspected to have a gun. This was in a courtroom where the law enforcement officers were not reasonably under threat (or did he suddenly claim he had a suicide vest?) I'm being ridiculous but how ridiculous is it for multiple bailiffs to tase someone rather than just restraining/removing him? Was he Chuck Norris, or were they the Donut Brigade, or were they just being a**holes?

Sorry but "yelling" at the judge doesn't justify excessive force.

 

[T.Lex]

Sorry but "yelling" at the judge doesn't justify excessive force.

9/10 judges would disagree.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I would be curious to know if you can spot your shot holes after you have been shooting it for a while.

Rule #1 of criminal litigation, don't yell at the judge.

 

[in625shooter]

Normally i would say that not being there, I don't know what force was necessary, maybe the guy seemed a threat, etc. However, this isn't a guy on the street who could have reasonably been suspected to have a gun. This was in a courtroom where the law enforcement officers were not reasonably under threat (or did he suddenly claim he had a suicide vest?) I'm being ridiculous but how ridiculous is it for multiple bailiffs to tase someone rather than just restraining/removing him? Was he Chuck Norris, or were they the Donut Brigade, or were they just being a**holes?

Sorry but "yelling" at the judge doesn't justify excessive force.

I have had the worst fights with the most skinny suspects. Unbelievable how hard some people are when they don't want to comply.

That being said genetally it works in 3's. 1 They ask him, 2 they tell him and 3 they make him. Sounds like they were at 3.5 which happens and if he was physically resisting (didn't say he was assaulting them just physically resisting) that's why the Tazers were employed.

And like everyone else here wasn't there but it doesn't really take a IQ of 200 to know it never works out to disrespect a judge in their own court room.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I have had the worst fights with the most skinny suspects. Unbelievable how hard some people are when they don't want to comply.

That being said genetally it works in 3's. 1 They ask him, 2 they tell him and 3 they make him. Sounds like they were at 3.5 which happens and if he was physically resisting (didn't say he was assaulting them just physically resisting) that's why the Tazers were employed.

And like everyone else here wasn't there but it doesn't really take a IQ of 200 to know it never works out to disrespect a judge in their own court room.

Ha! I don't know why that is, but it's always the skinny guys.... or the short ones.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Ha! I don't know why that is, but it's always the skinny guys.... or the short ones.

Are short, skinny guys the worst?

 

[jamil]

Rule #1 of criminal litigation, don't yell at the judge.

If you yelled at the judge, should you expect to get jackbooted? Tased?

I have had the worst fights with the most skinny suspects. Unbelievable how hard some people are when they don't want to comply.

That being said genetally it works in 3's. 1 They ask him, 2 they tell him and 3 they make him. Sounds like they were at 3.5 which happens and if he was physically resisting (didn't say he was assaulting them just physically resisting) that's why the Tazers were employed.

And like everyone else here wasn't there but it doesn't really take a IQ of 200 to know it never works out to disrespect a judge in their own court room.

Maybe some stuff went on that would justify the jackbooting, but simply being disrespectful to the judge shouldn't cause that. Like I said upthread, If he's getting ****ty with her, charge him with contempt, arrest him, if he resists, do whatever jackbooting is necessary to subdue him. But c'mon. Just to say it never works out well, as if we should just accept that anyone who diss's a judge should get a smackdown, that's not acceptable.

Be a ***damn professional. That's how I expect judges to conduct themselves.

 

[jamil]

Are short, skinny guys the worst?

Probably they're not as easy as pudgy middle aged white guys.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Probably they're not as easy as pudgy middle aged white guys.

You forgot "with a distinguished greying beard". Although us pudgy middle aged white guys with a distinguished amount of grey are generally very law-abiding.

 

[jamil]

You forgot "with a distinguished greying beard". Although us pudgy middle aged white guys with a distinguished amount of grey are generally very law-abiding.

Well, I'm mostly law abiding. I have to admit I do bend the speed limits. But I've never required jackbooting. And my beard is now much more salt than pepper. Not sure I would call it distinguished.

 

[in625shooter]

If you yelled at the judge, should you expect to get jackbooted? Tased?



Maybe some stuff went on that would justify the jackbooting, but simply being disrespectful to the judge shouldn't cause that. Like I said upthread, If he's getting ****ty with her, charge him with contempt, arrest him, if he resists, do whatever jackbooting is necessary to subdue him. But c'mon. Just to say it never works out well, as if we should just accept that anyone who diss's a judge should get a smackdown, that's not acceptable.

Be a ***damn professional. That's how I expect judges to conduct themselves.

Respectfully I'm just saying, When they fail to comply along with resisting (physically) it is no longer about speaking their mind. Especially if the Judge ordered them removed because of disrupting. I have sat in Federal court when I worked with the US Marshals service and Federal judges don't take a while lot of shenanigans for the most part.