Moron ATF agent seizes toy guns

[Titanium_Frost]

I'm not disagreeing, but you need to talk to Reagan about his lil legislation

Yep, a little late for that. June 2004. I remember where I was standing when the news went out that he passed away. He did a lot of good things and it was a weasly congress that allowed the Hughes amendment to pass and be piggiebacked onto otherwise helpful legislation IIRC.

FDR is who my biggest beef is with!

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Incorrect, the thread title still stands (morons). If you research the specific gun that they seized an AR upper would indeed fit but there are actually no real holes in the receiver (if you wanted to swap out real parts). Everything airsoft is housed in a detacheable trigger pack and the original parts would not set off a round (hammer does not come close to reaching a real firing pin). Also, ATF is stalling regarding a FOIA request sent about how the determination was made that these could indeed fire etc.

Well everyone knows the ATF manufactured machine guns out of rubber bands and shoestrings... Just add a semi auto firearm

 

[Tamara]

Machine guns should be sold on the shelves of every major department store. Screw the ATF, the NFA and the FOPA.

I want that too. And a pony. And a gold house and a rocket car.

I might get the pony someday.

 

[Tamara]

That is without getting into the logistics and cost involved in actually doing it, and how unrealistic it is to believe that airsoft gun poses a security threat.

It's the reporters that made it sound like kids were going to be converting their BB guns to M16s.

The BATFEIEIO seized them because you can't sell 98% lowers just because they have a plastic upper and the muzzle's painted orange.

Incorrect, the thread title still stands (morons). If you research the specific gun that they seized an AR upper would indeed fit but there are actually no real holes in the receiver (if you wanted to swap out real parts). Everything airsoft is housed in a detacheable trigger pack and the original parts would not set off a round (hammer does not come close to reaching a real firing pin).

My bad. Get Double Star to toss a LRPK in the box with the upper. I've already got the drill.

(EDITED TO ADD: In case any bright spark is lurking and getting ideas, this is not advisable practice. The buffer assembly and receiver extension will separate from the lower in relatively short order if you just go making a plastic AR lower...)

 

[Ted]

I'm not disagreeing, but you need to talk to Reagan about his lil legislation

It really wasn't really Reagan, but I understand your frustration.

NJ Dem, Rep. William Hughes owned that amendment to kill the entire FOPA. It didn't work as he intended, but we still got stuck with the ban.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

I can convert a piece of pipe into a shotgun, a TV antennae into a rifle, etc...so should they go around seizing things from hardware and electronics stores to prevent people from having things they could break the law with? I guess they're going to have to reinstate prohibition or make having cars illegal, because someone could break the law and drive drunk.... I can convert my WASR into a real AK by dropping in a legal to purchase full auto FCG, yet they are both still just fine to buy and posses. This idiot is out of control PERIOD.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I can convert a piece of pipe into a shotgun, a TV antennae into a rifle, etc...so should they go around seizing things from hardware and electronics stores to prevent people from having things they could break the law with? I guess they're going to have to reinstate prohibition or make having cars illegal, because someone could break the law and drive drunk.... I can convert my WASR into a real AK by dropping in a legal to purchase full auto FCG, yet they are both still just fine to buy and posses. This idiot is out of control PERIOD.

Disingenuous post is disingenuous.

Your point orginally was that the ease of modification was "BS," and you asked for proof. Proof was then provided, and now you want to change your stance by saying anything can be easily modified.

Fact remains that it's not BS, and that the skills needed modify that particular brand of airsoft, are much more common than the skills needed to turn a "TV" antenna into a rifle.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

Quintuple re-post: for the quintuple-filtered flavor we've all come to love.

 

[tv1217]

ATF agents are human and I invite them to jump off the southwest corner of my roof.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Disingenuous post is disingenuous.

Your point orginally was that the ease of modification was "BS," and you asked for proof. Proof was then provided, and now you want to change your stance by saying anything can be easily modified.

Fact remains that it's not BS, and that the skills needed modify that particular brand of airsoft, are much more common than the skills needed to turn a "TV" antenna into a rifle.

So you're saying it's easier than sticking a .22 round in a metal tube and securing it with super glue and/or duct tape? And I still don't believe it can be done effectively without killing the person using it.

 

[rightwinger]

did anyone notice at 1:18 this tard was putting the mag in backwords?????

 

[Colts]

Thanks for the robust discussion, this was a very interesting thread to read and enjoy (I just hope the participants enjoyed themselves as well).

 

[Sylvain]

Those things are dangerous, I even heard you can even use airsoft slings and convert it into a real sling by putting it on a real gun.Scary.

 

[hoosierdoc]

I ran across this clip on youtube and figured I would share. I found it quite hard to believe. I think it was in 2010 but jeezzz.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/the_2nd_amendment/78398-atf_seizing_toy_guns_too_now.html

Yeah, I think it was 2010

 

[Tamara]

So you're saying it's easier than sticking a .22 round in a metal tube and securing it with super glue and/or duct tape? And I still don't believe it can be done effectively without killing the person using it.

Internet ProTip: One might violate local ordinances and the the other will get you thrown in federal PMITA prison. I'll leave you to guess which is which.

The laws are what they are. You and I may wish they were different, but they aren't. Vote. Until then, don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

[Ted]

The laws are what they are. You and I may wish they were different, but they aren't. Vote. Until then, don't hate the player, hate the game.

Unfortunately, parts of the game don't apply to some of the players.

Simply look at Congress.

 

[nomadicmutt]

Disingenuous post is disingenuous.

Your point orginally was that the ease of modification was "BS," and you asked for proof. Proof was then provided, and now you want to change your stance by saying anything can be easily modified.

Fact remains that it's not BS, and that the skills needed modify that particular brand of airsoft, are much more common than the skills needed to turn a "TV" antenna into a rifle.

I used to help a friend run his airsoft business repairing the toy guns, and I have owned a few M-16 and M-4 replicas (pricey ones - averaged about $350 to $400) and (clears throat) Yes, the receiver could, with some machining, be used to make a functional AR. BUT, the biggest hurdle is the trigger group which the toy doesn't have (the airsoft guns use an electric gearbox or a pneumatic system like a paintball gun).
Then, mounting the trigger group solidly enough in pot metal or generic ABS plastic to run a cycling 7.62-firing bolt would be absolutely ridiculous without the know-how to reinforce the lower receiver, essentially rebuilding it.

So, I'm gonna say that the skills needed to modify airsoft guns to fire real bullets are about on par with the skills needed to machine a homemade gun from scratch.



Also, assuming they have an orange tip upon import, it is illegal for ATF to seize them. period. regardless of how scary they could possibly be made to be or how the ATF agents personally feel about them.

 

[Tamara]

So, I'm gonna say that the skills needed to modify airsoft guns to fire real bullets are about on par with the skills needed to machine a homemade gun from scratch.

Most airsoft guns, yes.

In the case of these particular ones, the guys in Hong Kong weren't entirely clear on U.S. firearms law and erred too far on the side of realism.

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

The laws are what they are. You and I may wish they were different, but they aren't. Vote. Until then, don't hate the player, hate the game.

I am going to have to stick with blaming both on this one, but for different reasons. I will blame the law for being ridiculous and poorly thought out, but I will also blame the individuals that enforced this law for the ridiculous length they went to pull toy guns off the shelf of a small business owner.

Just because selling food and beverages without a license is illegal, does not mean we should enforce it by shutting down little girl's lemonade stands. That would be far outside the spirit of the law, and was never a target of enforcement when the law was written.

When laws are stretched this far from the spirit envisioned when written, and enforcement discretion is so black and white that the laws are applied in ridiculous ways - we can blame the enforcers.

 

[cobber]

Just because selling food and beverages without a license is illegal, does not mean we should enforce it by shutting down little girl's lemonade stands. That would be far outside the spirit of the law, and was never a target of enforcement when the law was written.

Stoessel had a video on the above. The girls are getting out of the DOC in a year or two.